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 Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:28 am 
Ribbs wrote: I know. And all of the people who helped make Combinations and Room Noises know. Eisley would be recording in Weston's bedroom, if at all. Trust me, that's not a pretty picture. Ask Weston.
The making of quality poetry requires nothing but a pen and a talented mind. Unfortunately the popular conception of the lives of musicians is skewed considerably by inane shows like MTV Cribs. Believe me, 99% of the people who make the music you listen to are just making a living doing it - some better than others, many barely at all. The idiots parading around their bling are a tiny tiny portion of the folks who bring you the tunes you like. Maybe you should listen only to demos from now on and see if that satisfies you. I gotta say, there are some really amazing recorded-in-the-bedroom albums out there. The Creek Drank the Cradle and Transit Byzantium are two excellent examples, as is Someone Still Loves You Boris Yeltsin's Broom. I'm thinking about doing my next album on tape in the spare bedroom of my house. Imogen Heap recorded her solo album in her own studio entirely by herself, which isn't quite the same as far as DIY ethic goes but it's still pretty impressive. And when it comes to demos, there are a few of Eisley's songs that I vastly prefer to the "finished" versions. "Lost at Sea" was perfect with the organ and the fuzzy tape sound. Room Noises' producers pretty much destroyed that song. What I'm trying to say is that while good production is important, it does not equal good music. Something recorded on a four-track can blow the most lovingly crafted radio single out of the water. The truth is in the music, not the way it sounds, and while good production can make a good song sound great, bad production destroys good songs and good production can not salvage a bad song. So, to paraphrase your poetry example, the making of quality music requires nothing but your voice and something to record it on. _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003 | Posts: 14510 | Location: Alone on an airplane, fallin' asleep against the windowpane...
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:39 am
Saellys wrote: I gotta say, there are some really amazing recorded-in-the-bedroom albums out there.. And when it comes to demos, there are a few of Eisley's songs that I vastly prefer to the "finished" versions. "Lost at Sea" was perfect with the organ and the fuzzy tape sound. Room Noises' producers pretty much destroyed that song.
i contend to this day that the demo of lost at sea is teh best eisley song of all time. _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004 | Posts: 4836 | Location: illinois
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:50 am
I think a better studio can only make a record better. There have been amazing home recorded albums (Damien Rice's O comes to mind), but a studio only widens your toolset and capabilities. One thing I do agree with Andrew Keen about is that intermediataries can help the musical process and create a more professonal result. I mean, just imagine how different Combinations would have been if Eisley had not had Richard's compositional ear and pen? _________________ EisleyForever wrote: you're A-list in my heart! MAKECOLDPLAYHISTORY |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005 | Posts: 8868 | Location: Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:04 am
DRMS_7888 wrote: I think a better studio can only make a record better. There have been amazing home recorded albums (Damien Rice's O comes to mind), but a studio only widens your toolset and capabilities. One thing I do agree with Andrew Keen about is that intermediataries can help the musical process and create a more professonal result. I mean, just imagine how different Combinations would have been if Eisley had not had Richard's compositional ear and pen? I do not disagree about Richard's contributions to Combinations at all. Those arrangements are really the only reason I listen to the album, as the songwriting didn't impress me this time around. But I do not at all think that a better studio can only make an album better. Room Noises suffered horribly at the hands of its producers. I could name a few other albums that would have been better off in a different studio, or even recorded at home. If a band can go out and find the producer that fits them 100% like Eisley did with Richard, or like Radiohead did with Nigel Godrich, I say go for it and spend everything you've got on that person's studio because it's worth it. But 99% of recording bands out there will never get the opportunity to find that person, and will just get shuttled around from producer to producer and they'll never find the right match. And they'd probably be better off doing it themselves, because no one knows their songs better than they do and their vision is different from that of the producers they keep getting. Phew. Anyway.  _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003 | Posts: 14510 | Location: Alone on an airplane, fallin' asleep against the windowpane...
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:44 am
I would have bought Combinations even if Eisley produced it themselves. But I'm sure the label wouldn't allow that. But it sure would have saved them a lot of cash. Sorry Richard, but I don't think bands in Eisley's position need to be spending a lot of money on fancy producers to make a good album. _________________ http://www.myspace.com/keithabbott |
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006 | Posts: 267 | Location: Fairfax, VA
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:50 am
Well, intermediaries work only when they truely mean well. Single hungry noobies probably isn't someone you want to have as a producer. A good producer is generally better then no producer. _________________ EisleyForever wrote: you're A-list in my heart! MAKECOLDPLAYHISTORY |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005 | Posts: 8868 | Location: Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:46 pm
Pantheon4 wrote: I don't think Guitar Center would have nearly as many stores if they only relied on people who have recording contracts to purchase instruments and equipment. I would say that if it weren't for the lure of the possibility of becoming a professional musician that Guitar Center would be hurting for customers. Agreed, most of the buyers are amateurs - but many of them are amateurs with hopes and dreams. Pantheon4 wrote: I think a lot of demos are better to things people produce later in the studio. The first Smashing Pumpkins demo comes to mind. A lot of myspace demos don't sound that bad. Agreed - I have had the experience myself of not being able the recapture a certain ineffable something that was present in the demo of a song I wrote when rerecording it in earnest in the studio. Generally speaking, though, the final produced versions of songs are vast improvements on the demos. Pantheon4 wrote: And to your other point that not all musicians are rich (like on the South Park episode "Christian Rock Hard"), I agree with it. But the record industry got themselves in that by having Lars Ulrich (who made A LOT of money from record sales and full circle with bootleg copies) make their case against illegal downloading. Now you have (too) many people who download out of pure spite. The record industry didn't select Lars to be the spokesman against downloading - he did that all on his own. I seriously doubt that people are downloading 'out of pure spite'. My guess is they are downloading out of pure greed. _________________ http://richardgibbsmusic.com/ http://www.woodshedrecording.com/ |
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Joined: 04 May 2006 | Posts: 98 | Location: Malibu
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:03 pm
Saellys wrote: I gotta say, there are some really amazing recorded-in-the-bedroom albums out there. The Creek Drank the Cradle and Transit Byzantium are two excellent examples, as is Someone Still Loves You Boris Yeltsin's Broom. I'm thinking about doing my next album on tape in the spare bedroom of my house. Imogen Heap recorded her solo album in her own studio entirely by herself, which isn't quite the same as far as DIY ethic goes but it's still pretty impressive. And when it comes to demos, there are a few of Eisley's songs that I vastly prefer to the "finished" versions. "Lost at Sea" was perfect with the organ and the fuzzy tape sound. Room Noises' producers pretty much destroyed that song. I came off a little snarky with my demo comment a few posts ago, so please allow me to recant just a tad - I agree that the first blush of a song is sometimes the best. I'm not going to comment on Room Noises production - I wasn't there, so I have no idea of what went down or why. Saellys wrote: What I'm trying to say is that while good production is important, it does not equal good music. Something recorded on a four-track can blow the most lovingly crafted radio single out of the water. The truth is in the music, not the way it sounds, and while good production can make a good song sound great, bad production destroys good songs and good production can not salvage a bad song. Actually I could come up with quite a few examples of marginal songs that were made stellar by great production, but overall I agree with your point. Saellys wrote: So, to paraphrase your poetry example, the making of quality music requires nothing but your voice and something to record it on. Well here we must agree to disagree, I guess. The Rite of Spring might have sounded not so hot if Igor had just hummed the melody into a tape recorder. Okay, that was a cheap shot on my part. How about Sgt. Pepper? While chock-full of great songwriting, that album was clearly vaulted into all-time classic status by amazing production. Need I go on? _________________ http://richardgibbsmusic.com/ http://www.woodshedrecording.com/ |
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Joined: 04 May 2006 | Posts: 98 | Location: Malibu
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:08 pm
keithabbott wrote: I would have bought Combinations even if Eisley produced it themselves. But I'm sure the label wouldn't allow that. But it sure would have saved them a lot of cash. Sorry Richard, but I don't think bands in Eisley's position need to be spending a lot of money on fancy producers to make a good album. Hehe - fancy, huh? That's a new one on me. Never thought of myself as fancy. _________________ http://richardgibbsmusic.com/ http://www.woodshedrecording.com/ |
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Joined: 04 May 2006 | Posts: 98 | Location: Malibu
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:11 pm
It bugs me when people would prefer a band record in a bathtub with a bad microphone. People don't say driving in a hooptie is better than driving in a really nice car. Maybe a band just wants equipment that works and wants to record on nice stuff with a person or two who know how to use it? I see a big difference between that and candied up production. _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003 | Posts: 25184 | Location: East Texas
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:19 pm
DRMS_7888 wrote: Richard, what do you think about people like Andrew Keen? He basically believes that the internet is destroying professional trades because everyone is stealing professional work and uploading their own amateur work. Hey thanks for that link - I was not familiar with Andrew Keen before. I think he is right on the money, to answer your question. _________________ http://richardgibbsmusic.com/ http://www.woodshedrecording.com/ |
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Joined: 04 May 2006 | Posts: 98 | Location: Malibu
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:23 pm
TheAntrider wrote: It bugs me when people would prefer a band record in a bathtub with a bad microphone. People don't say driving in a hooptie is better than driving in a really nice car. Maybe a band just wants equipment that works and wants to record on nice stuff with a person or two who know how to use it? I see a big difference between that and candied up production. Thanks for the support, I think. Unless I'm responsible for taffy production 
What's a hooptie? _________________ http://richardgibbsmusic.com/ http://www.woodshedrecording.com/ |
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Joined: 04 May 2006 | Posts: 98 | Location: Malibu
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:42 pm
Ribbs wrote: TheAntrider wrote: It bugs me when people would prefer a band record in a bathtub with a bad microphone. People don't say driving in a hooptie is better than driving in a really nice car. Maybe a band just wants equipment that works and wants to record on nice stuff with a person or two who know how to use it? I see a big difference between that and candied up production. Thanks for the support, I think. Unless I'm responsible for taffy production
What's a hooptie? You're welcome. Nah, I don't think Combinations is candied up. ha. A hooptie is a beater/junker car. Or what I call my increasingly beat up laptop.  _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003 | Posts: 25184 | Location: East Texas
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:03 am
Congratulations Richard. You've offically graduated to "fancy". No insult intended by the way. It's a compliment. But at the same time, I find some musicians are talented enough to produce their own music at the cost of the equipment. In the end, it's all subjective anyway. That doesn't take anything away from the work and heart you put into the project. So once again, no disrespect intended. Ribbs wrote: keithabbott wrote: I would have bought Combinations even if Eisley produced it themselves. But I'm sure the label wouldn't allow that. But it sure would have saved them a lot of cash. Sorry Richard, but I don't think bands in Eisley's position need to be spending a lot of money on fancy producers to make a good album. Hehe - fancy, huh? That's a new one on me. Never thought of myself as fancy. _________________ http://www.myspace.com/keithabbott |
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006 | Posts: 267 | Location: Fairfax, VA
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:37 am
It's not just about talent. It is also about the ability to be objective - for this same reason I always hire an orchestrator to work on my scores (95% of composers do), even though I am trained in orchestration and have orchestrated for other composers. I like having an objective ear balancing the orchestra - I can always override his idea, but rarely do. Anybody, of course, could serve the purpose of objectivity for a recording artist if the artist trusts and respects him (or her - although I just realized I can't think of a single female record producer other than self-producing artists). In my case I also bring the ability to musically add to what is already there if the artist wants me to. Some bands need a taskmaster/disciplinarian. Some need a shrink. Others a trusted knob-twister. In any case the hope is that the money spent on a producer will be offset by an increased viability in the market, reflected by sales. Or maybe, just maybe, the artist just wants to make the best recording possible with every resource they can afford - those are the artists that I seek to work with. Like Eisley. Could they have made this record by themselves? Of course they could have - but it would be a different record. This was the one they wanted to make. _________________ http://richardgibbsmusic.com/ http://www.woodshedrecording.com/ |
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Joined: 04 May 2006 | Posts: 98 | Location: Malibu
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