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 Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:18 pm 
How did tahruh's post come, between Pine's post & my reaction? It wasn't there before?  _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB          
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:51 pm
I gave up meat for a little over a year in 2004-05. It was pretty easy to do, but I didn't have the discipline to really eat a healthy vegetarian diet. I ended up eating a lot of unhealthy foods (processed carbs). Modern agriculture is a problem. Regardless of your position on animals being "sentient", there are problems that effect us. Hormones, antibiotics, supervirus/bacteria, ...etc. The way farmers and meat packers are treated makes me sick to my stomach. The corn thing is a bit crazy, as well. http://itvs.org/indies-showcase/films I'm lucky to have a lot of resources for eating "cleaner" meats and veggies. My grandparents have summer and winter vegetable gardens, fruit trees, and chicken coops. There are lot of small dairies and cattle ranches that have a massive range to roam. (I just saw some actual cowboys rounding up some cattle on the side of a hill the other day.) Most of the men in my family are game hunters and fishers. When I eat out, I usually go for the vegetarian options, unless they are a "natural" style restaurant, which we seem to have a ton of, these days. If you care enough to change the way you eat, I think it's easiest to start small. Pick things that you eat every day, and start replacing them with something you feel a little better about. If you can't give up meat, try just decreasing it. If you can't start a garden, go to a farmers market. Also, while I don't have a problem with eating meat, I totally understand why others do have a problem with it. I have a lot of respect for you vegetarians and vegans. _________________ You can't find love; you have to create it. Flickr |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:03 am
i always find it funny that there are levels of vegitarianism. like vegan and what not. i mean if you feel you shouldn't eat that stuff, then why stop at the meat? or some who eat chicken and fish, but not cow. if you feel eating milk and cheese is ok why? i mean it shows that you feel the cow is a viable food source. also you can make the point that we are the only creatures that eat another animals milk. so you could say, convincingly, that there is no need to do that. but yeah, i dont get it all. i think some do it just because it is a trendy thing people do in big cities because it makes them feel better about themsevles. i am ok with that. just dont confuse pretentiousness with good deeds. _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:44 am
Hmmmmm...ehh...I'm just not even gonna go there. _________________ Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:56 am
mr pine wrote: dont confuse pretentiousness with good deeds. That definitely resonates with me deeply. but... We shouldn't confuse being jaded and disenchanted with being reasonably skeptical or objectively rational. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:00 am
wilsmith wrote: mr pine wrote: dont confuse pretentiousness with good deeds. That definitely resonates with me deeply. but... We shouldn't confuse being jaded and disenchanted with being reasonably skeptical or objectively rational. fair enough. my tl;dr point (and probably makes more sense and seems less harsh then when I keep typing) is if you are going to say you dont like it that they harm animals, then you should go the full nine and not eat any type of animal product or by product. not pick and choose. that, too me, seems asinine and like you are doing it just to do it. if you are going the full nine and not doing all that stuff great. does that at least make sense? _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:19 am
^ and that's why your point resonated with me, because it points out how easy it is to be a hypocrite when a person tries to follow a sweeping principle and still satiate their appetites for antithetical preferences, which is par for the course in this world (or at least the modern era where people are so cosmopolitan and their interested multi-faceted and disjointed). You can't serve to masters, you can't have your cake and eat it too, yatada... _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:50 am
I think a lot of people, like myself, have no problem eating meat, but do have a problem with the current state of agriculture. It's not just about animal cruelty, but about the way workers and consumers are treated. It's easier and cheaper to find eggs and milk products that have been ethically acquired. It's pretty hard to find affordable meat that hasn't been tainted somehow by big farming business, so it's easier to just give up meat. That isn't hypocritical, in my opinion. A lot of people go vegetarian with the ultimate goal of becoming vegan. I don't think there is anything hypocritical about that. Pescetarians usually are only in it for the health benefits, from my experience. There is nothing hypocritical about that. I will say that I know some vegans who are clearly doing it to be fashionable, and while it doesn't really bother me, I do secretly laugh at them. I don't think it's fair to criticize people for trying to do the right thing. _________________ You can't find love; you have to create it. Flickr |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:05 am
^ I follow, and maybe I'm mistaken and you're coming at Mr. Pine more so than my comments, but since I invoked the the Hypocrite label, I'm game on considering your views, and defending mine. I water down my opinions internally, cause I think they are like bullion cubes. They are super bitter, have pointy edges, and hard to chew or swallow. My undiluted Wil O'reilly No Spin Zone opinion goes more like this: "That Gaga Meat dress was Amazing!" vs. "Food Inc. made me go vegan!" - coming from the same imaginary person I am stereotyping to = Superficial Fashionability that may or may not be reconciled one way or another with said imaginary person, but for now is lame and Hypocritical! So yeah, I'm not really meaning people who have variations on one particular diet, or philosophical principle, just the people who are just plain bass ackwards with their views and loyalties. It irks me having a society where more an more pets have more outfits and better insurance (and diets) than human beings the world round in developing nations. Or health conscious people who do drugs/ alcohol that aren't a treatment for some debilitating medical condition they have. Or complaining about Gas costs and usage for the average consumer meanwhile all our sports teams, touring entities, and motor sports consume ridiculous amounts of fuel recreationally (in the name of generating wealth to support said industry that helps our economy I guess ). That's what I'm railing against. You know, Foot in Mouth Disease.
So, for the buddy I have who was vegan who said he would only eat meat if he or his family killed it himself, that's fine. That's his barometer for what it means to be vegan for him. I just think, if you are going to argue your view you need to make sure it's arguable, otherwise just relinquish any claim to moral or rhetorical authority and concede that it's just your opinion, and holds no baring over anyone else. and I'm using "you" in the abstract sense and not pointing my finger at anyone in particular. I used to get crap about that, so I just want to make that clear, when I say "you" I don't mean "You", I Mean ALL OF YOU. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:23 am
cynlovescandy wrote: I think a lot of people, like myself, have no problem eating meat, but do have a problem with the current state of agriculture. It's not just about animal cruelty, but about the way workers and consumers are treated. It's easier and cheaper to find eggs and milk products that have been ethically acquired. It's pretty hard to find affordable meat that hasn't been tainted somehow by big farming business, so it's easier to just give up meat. That isn't hypocritical, in my opinion.
A lot of people go vegetarian with the ultimate goal of becoming vegan. I don't think there is anything hypocritical about that. Pescetarians usually are only in it for the health benefits, from my experience. There is nothing hypocritical about that. I will say that I know some vegans who are clearly doing it to be fashionable, and while it doesn't really bother me, I do secretly laugh at them. I don't think it's fair to criticize people for trying to do the right thing. fair enough. your points are valid. except for one. and i don't mean this to sound cruel at all. but as someone who livesin a small midwest town (9700 people) who feeds his wife and two kids off of one income, no, there is no cheap viable "ethically" acquired eggs, milk, and cheese. no inexpensive "ethical" meat (i use quotes because is there any nice way to kill something? it is still dead in the end) you can't even buy organic cheap around here. until that changes I will eat mass produced unethical beef until my heart explodes (literally) _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:08 am
mr pine wrote: as someone who livesin a small midwest town (9700 people) who feeds his wife and two kids off of one income, no, there is no cheap viable "ethically" acquired eggs, milk, and cheese. no inexpensive "ethical" meat (i use quotes because is there any nice way to kill something? it is still dead in the end) you can't even buy organic cheap around here. until that changes I will eat mass produced unethical beef until my heart explodes (literally) Let's be clear. While I have my own hopes and ideals regarding this whole "meat" thing, I would never judge someone else for theirs. I have no problem with you or anyone eating a certain way. You're right, it's more expensive to eat "clean". Like I said in my original post, I'm lucky to have great access to organic fruits, veggies, eggs, and meat. I just have to go visit my grandma and I'll leave with a trunk full of it, for free! I realize that this is a rare circumstance, and I am oh-so grateful for it.
From my experience, finding organic milk, cheese, and eggs is easier and cheaper than meat. I think that's why some people just don't eat meat. That's all. Also, for the record, while I try to be more conscious of these things, I am not above eating a nice juicy steak (especially prime rib, rare of course  ) during the holidays, regardless of where it's from. (although it's usually something my uncle bought/got from his friend that owns a small cattle ranch, because grass fed beef just tastes way better.)
It's all about moderation, in my opinion. To bring back the hypocrite topic. I just don't like to think of people being hypocrites, because we all are to some degree. I know I have hypocritical tendencies. It can be frustrating to see people being so obviously hypocritical, especially when they exhibit an elitist attitude, but the truth is: I don't care. I'm pretty comfortable with my diet and way of life, and that's all that matters. (although I'm always open to learning new ways). Does that make any sense? _________________ You can't find love; you have to create it. Flickr |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:15 am
i understand completely. And I don't care what people do either. i think, what happens (and I am make a broad generalization so dont hate) is SOME people get an elitist attitude when it comes to vegitarianism. And they look at your as some sort of horrible person. As if they are better than you. Now I am a horrible person no doubt. But not because I enjoy cow flesh. _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:16 am
^ yeah, can't argue with that, and I know my judgmental attitude about gross offenders of hypocrisy is only going to land me in hell (literal & figurative) if I don't loosen up. But about "not caring". I struggle with that. I can be really blase' about stuff, even if I write and talk about it like it's a big deal. The whole let go & let God attitude is what I would like to think it is, but at what point does it become Apathy in action, even if it's "live and let live" in rhetoric? It's an issue, at least for me, cause sometimes I feel like the Honeybadger. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:33 am
well there is always a struggle between contentment and complacency. between empathy and apathy. its the struggle of life, especially with men. _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:53 am
Amen. Don't let the fairer gender fool you though... Have we discussed the "You are dead to me." switch that seems to come as a standard feature on the women in my family dangerously close to the "I will shower you with love for no good reason whatsoever." switch? For another day. To make it relevant to this convo, I have a beef with that. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
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Laughing City Forum Index -> General -> Meat
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