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boone
Vintage Newbie


I just saw that and was going to mention it. You're quick. And this is cool.
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wilsmith
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To add to the surrealness of this day, I'm listening to the TV as this whole Suspect #2 standoff goes down while I check the LC for these updates. Keeping things in perspective, but not letting it spoil my mood. Strangeness.
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norad
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marshkingsdaughter wrote:
UPDATE: So rad! I emailed them about making the $1 level applicable for all donation levels, and they fixed it with their first update. Glad to see how responsive they're being right now.

Ohh awesome. My dad was trying to make two separate pledges so we could get the $60 and $1 reward but kickstarter is weird so this is good!
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tahruh
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Well, I wouldn't say they are greedy jerks, and if fans want to support them more directly, I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that, but this does seem a bit strange to me. $100, 000 for a band to tour? I know some things about the logistics of touring, and the music industry, and I assure you most of the bands I love never had that kind of money to support tours during times of low popularity. In fact, one of the main purposes of touring (and merch sales) is to earn income. Bands that aren't financially secure usually do work day jobs in between, in order to save for the basics, like a van, and work out accommodations as they go...like crashing on peoples' couches. Where's the DIY ethic most bands are forced to adopt that don't want to "sell out"? I realize they've done most of that in the past, but this sort of thing comes with the territory of choosing an independent label, as well as the choices they've made as far as marketing is concerned. Essentially, they're starting over, because 2003 (the last time Eisley was "hip") was a very long time ago.

I'm quite happy with the direction they seem to be going musically, and I do hope they get to present their work to an audience in the way it is meant to be heard, but it seems almost sinful to give so much money to a band that could still do that by either supporting and rebuilding a base, and/or settling for the bare essentials.

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marshkingsdaughter
Golly, Poster


tahruh wrote:
Well, I wouldn't say they are greedy jerks, and if fans want to support them more directly, I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that, but this does seem a bit strange to me. $100, 000 for a band to tour? I know some things about the logistics of touring, and the music industry, and I assure you most of the bands I love never had that kind of money to support tours during times of low popularity. In fact, one of the main purposes of touring (and merch sales) is to earn income. Bands that aren't financially secure usually do work day jobs in between, in order to save for the basics, like a van, and work out accommodations as they go...like crashing on peoples' couches. Where's the DIY ethic most bands are forced to adopt that don't want to "sell out"?


I'm guessing a huge part of this comes from the new baby aspect. They can't afford to be so DIY with the babies. And they're also looking to tour internationally and up the production value. I get the frustration, but also totally understand where the 100k number is coming from.

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wilsmith
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marshkingsdaughter wrote:
tahruh wrote:
$100, 000 for a band to tour? Bands that aren't financially secure usually do work day jobs in between, in order to save for the basics, like a van, and work out accommodations as they go...like crashing on peoples' couches. Where's the DIY ethic most bands are forced to adopt that don't want to "sell out"?


I'm guessing a huge part of this comes from the new baby aspect. They can't afford to be so DIY with the babies. And they're also looking to tour internationally and up the production value. I get the frustration, but also totally understand where the 100k number is coming from.



Having to tour with 3 families of 3 (4 if Darren can make the tour), 5 band members, gear, a soundman, the opening act (when Merriment comes along) amounts to 11 (12) adults, 4 babies. That's not what the usual DIY bands do. Basically that's stuff mainly Willie Nelson and Neil Young are known for pulling off, tour by caravan. The costs of touring this record for its entire cycle (potentially 2 years off and on) as headliners, or as support for larger acts ( highly probably based on the quality of the tracks I've heard so far) stand to be pretty impressive if they plan to be road warriors.

Thing is, even if they don't, the costs of touring overseas in the UK and Australia are Enormous! I sincerely believe doing so will be quite the boon for the band in those markets, and I also wonder if Equal Vision has any relationships with international distributors/ or imprints for the release of Currents abroad. If not, and Eisley are free agents abroad, this gives them a chance to build those bridges and expand their business internationally, which never hurts. But the initial cost of travel is a fuddrucker. Again, 11-12 adults, gear, transportation, room and board, and provisions for the 4 infants, across 3 continents. 100k over 2 years seems legit.

Truth be told though, if you wanna blame somebody for this bold ambition, blame AMANDA PALMER.

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Last edited by wilsmith on Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tahruh
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Yeah, I just read their announcement and some of the AP thread. Please know how horrified I am to actually to be in agreement with many of their prominent members.

Asking for 6 figures to go on a tour because they decided to have children right before an album cycle is honestly a bit rockstarish. Really exploitative to be honest, now that I've seen what's on the table.

And it's a bit of a slap in the face, given their Instagram updates that consist of daily breakfast, lunches (and often dinners, as well) out, outfits they seem to never wear twice, backgrounds consisting of nice furnishings and electronics found inside of their considerable homes, or new cars, taken with the latest iPhone.

And I just read Max pulls in $200, 000 alone on his SongShop... Congratulations on being upper middle class, Sherri. I mean, there are people who can't afford to feed their children, forget about a safe and comfy world tour!

Honestly, this has become really disturbing to me. Which is kind of disheartening, given the impact Eisley has turned out to have on my life.

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wilsmith
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I took Max into consideration, and I keep in mind that he is bankrolling his own band, and whatever costs he expends working with Marksmen and Merriment to put out their music, as well as the touring costs for Say Anything etc. He may be making a profit in the long haul, but he isn't obligated to support everyone else.

Now, it's been noted that Weston & Christie have day jobs. Todd has Larose guitars, and at one point Chauntelle was teaching guitar lessons. I would hope that they've all been paid for any vocal contributions they did for other artists, but it's entirely possible that in some cases they donated their services in the case of artists of lesser means.

When it's all said and done, the cost of living has to be taken care of, and the costs of making music are an entirely different thing. The goal is always to have the music pay for the cost of it's production and promotion and not interfere with the other things that constitute living.

Soooo... I have seen so many other artists aspire to less, and give less specifics about how they will use the funds, and raise as much, if not more, because they had the fan base to do it. In some cases they artists struck me as less diligent and dedicated to their craft as musicians. But hey, that's just the way the cracker crumbles. They're not promised to make their goal.

Even if they don't, they are put in a position where they at least have an accurate picture of the demand for their offerings. They can then put up a Bandcamp or some other means of digital distribution for those items and put them on sale and take the revenue and put it towards their goals without the time constraints of kickstarter, sort of like what Lovedrug did, and it seems to work like gangbusters. They put out product like they were the darling of a major label all on their lonesome and toured the crap out of their EP series and LP Wildblood.

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marshkingsdaughter
Golly, Poster


tahruh wrote:
Asking for 6 figures to go on a tour because they decided to have children right before an album cycle is honestly a bit rockstarish. Really exploitative to be honest, now that I've seen what's on the table.

And it's a bit of a slap in the face, given their Instagram updates that consist of daily breakfast, lunches (and often dinners, as well) out, outfits they seem to never wear twice, backgrounds consisting of nice furnishings and electronics found inside of their considerable homes, or new cars, taken with the latest iPhone.


I don't think this is the band saying, "We're poor, feed us." This is literally just them asking the fans to help finance a very, very expensive tour. I would like to see them on this cycle, as would international fans. I don't think it's unreasonable at ALL for them to use kickstarter to get the cash upfront rather than wait to see what happens. It's just a different model.

And I also don't see what's wrong with the band aspiring to a slightly higher standard of living? They have babies and iPhones and etsy dresses, but, so? It's like, Kristen Bell might be a millionaire, but why should she pay for the Veronica Mars movie out of pocket when there are plenty of fans who WANT to pay for it? We're paying the band for a service. At the end of the campaign, we'll have better access to their music, and there will be MORE of their music for us to access. To me, that's worth the $61 I paid.

I mean, I still get why you're uncomfortable, but I think most of that stems from a lack of separation between personal and professional costs. It's always going to be a blurry line for creative professionals, but this IS their job. I don't see why every person who runs a kickstarter campaign should be expected to be in abject poverty.

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tahruh
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Eisley are a conservative band for the most part, right? People who bring tons of people, including their little ones, on tours, or trips, or whatevers do so because they can afford to. Other people, most people, make sacrifices. The conservative mantra is to live within one's own means, and I'm inclined to agree when one has the means to actually live, which Eisley seem to, and seem to do quite well.

The entitlement here is horrifying.

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Last edited by tahruh on Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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marshkingsdaughter
Golly, Poster


tahruh wrote:
Eisley are a conservative band for the most part, right? People who bring tons of people, including their little ones on tours, or trips, or whatevers do so because they can afford to. Other people, most people, make sacrifices. The conservative mantra is to live within one's own means, and I'm inclined to agree when one has the means to actually live, which Eisley seem to, and seem to do quite well.

The entitlement here is horrifying.


But Kickstarter is not a charity: it's a platform for funding projects. They've literally been touring in the same ~*lovely*~ old van since they were like 15 years old... Why would they keep doing that if they knew that there was another way to do things? They're also not asking people to help them stay at the Ritz in Paris when they stop there on their tour. $100,000 is really, really not that much when you factor everything in. Should they just not go on tour?

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tahruh
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marshkingsdaughter wrote:

And I also don't see what's wrong with the band aspiring to a slightly higher standard of living? They have babies and iPhones and etsy dresses, but, so?
"Get a jorb!" :p

Yeah, I would like a higher standard of living myself, but I'm not going to ask for $100, 000 from people who really like me and give them things that aren't priced at a fair value in return, only to go and make more money off them as a show of my thanks (because the tour needs to be further funded via ticket sales).


marshkingsdaughter wrote:
I mean, I still get why you're uncomfortable, but I think most of that stems from a lack of separation between personal and professional costs. It's always going to be a blurry line for creative professionals, but this IS their job. I don't see why every person who runs a kickstarter campaign should be expected to be in abject poverty.
They don't live in anything remotely resembling abject poverty; what an offensive statement.
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Last edited by tahruh on Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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tahruh
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marshkingsdaughter wrote:
tahruh wrote:
Eisley are a conservative band for the most part, right? People who bring tons of people, including their little ones on tours, or trips, or whatevers do so because they can afford to. Other people, most people, make sacrifices. The conservative mantra is to live within one's own means, and I'm inclined to agree when one has the means to actually live, which Eisley seem to, and seem to do quite well.

The entitlement here is horrifying.


But Kickstarter is not a charity: it's a platform for funding projects. They've literally been touring in the same ~*lovely*~ old van since they were like 15 years old... Why would they keep doing that if they knew that there was another way to do things? They're also not asking people to help them stay at the Ritz in Paris when they stop there on their tour. $100,000 is really, really not that much when you factor everything in. Should they just not go on tour?
If they can't afford to (financially with everyone, or emotionally because it would mean parting with their babes for awhile), well then, YEAH! Welcome to IRL, USA. This isn't Iceland. You can't have it all.
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marshkingsdaughter
Golly, Poster


tahruh wrote:
marshkingsdaughter wrote:

And I also don't see what's wrong with the band aspiring to a slightly higher standard of living? They have babies and iPhones and etsy dresses, but, so?
"Get a jorb!" :p

Yeah, I would like a higher of standard living myself, but I'm not going to ask for $100, 000 from people who really like me and give them things that aren't priced at a fair value in return, only to go and make more money off them as a show of my thanks (because the tour needs to be further funded via ticket sales).


Then it's a matter of how you define fair. I have no issue paying $50 for the unreleased demos. I have very little money, but I want to hear those $50 much. They'll also need to fund the next EP.

tahruh wrote:

marshkingsdaughter wrote:
I mean, I still get why you're uncomfortable, but I think most of that stems from a lack of separation between personal and professional costs. It's always going to be a blurry line for creative professionals, but this IS their job. I don't see why every person who runs a kickstarter campaign should be expected to be in abject poverty.
They don't live in anything remotely resembling abject poverty; what an offensive statement.


I said that they were living in the opposite of abject poverty. The point is that I don't think you need to be living in a state of just supporting yourself in order to ask other people to help you create something that THEY want to exist. I WANT this tour to exist, so I pay to help make it exist. I want the demos to be released, I want a new EP. These are goods and services that I'm paying for in advance of their creation -- period. What the band members do with the extra cash that they make (the money that they earn in exchange for the time spent producing the music that the fans enjoy listening to) is up to them.

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tahruh
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It all sounds very reasonable... to a Stan! Hence the exploitation.
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