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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:57 am 
Painaporo wrote: I find this to all be very interesting. Clearly I was mistaken when I assumed that Eisley would support women's rights. I had never really stopped to think about their politics until all this Texas/abortion stuff came up. It just sounded like a horrible law was being passed in Texas that aims to deny women of their legal right to control what they do with their own bodies (hello! Roe v. Wade, Griswold v. Connecticut). I assumed, incorrectly, that a band of women from Texas might want to take a stand against such a thing.
I too am saddened by what I've read here. Not just about Eisley's stance on women's rights issues, but also that they probably don't believe in evolution. It raises some red flags where home schooling is concerned. Maybe they need a kickstarter to help fund a college education for Christie? Now I'm worried about the band's position on gay rights too. It makes me cringe to think that I could have been buying music all these years from a band that doesn't believe in equal rights for all. Like I said, I never really considered Eisley's political beliefs before yesterday. This thread has been extremely enlightening. Perhaps the reason Eisley doesn't talk much about their beliefs is that they are scared of offending people, which at this point seems like a totally legit decision. i'm not going to not like someone's art and music just because of their political or personal beliefs, and i'm not going to like someone's art and music because our beliefs supposedly align. i think that's a little petty. working somewhat within music and nonprofit, i have a ton of friends who swing towards both extreme of being liberal and conservative. do i agree with them all the time? not at all, but i just don't think that stuff like that should deter you from being friends with someone. besides, i like putting my beliefs into perspective and see how other people outside of my thinking space operate. they probably do care very much for women's rights, but their perception of it is different, just like anybody else's view on it. in terms of gay rights, if you see my first post in the thread, at least sherri has no problems listening to a band with lgbt association. overall, i just don't think it's something worth worrying about. _________________ Oneironaut http://www.facebook.com/ChengBand |
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Joined: 06 Sep 2008 | Posts: 1156 | Location: Nashville
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:36 am
Maybe people should just listen to good music and not worry about their political leanings. Conservatives have to do it more often than not. Sometimes you really have overlook things to enjoy good music; compared to, say, Phil Spector, political beliefs is not such a big deal. Would throwing a fit and moving out of Texas make their music sound better? No. Is moving to a different state even an effective political strategy? No way. How many people in Hollywood moved out of California when Prop 8 passed? Oh, nobody? What if they're just keeping themselves busy making music and taking care of their families? What if a musician is political, but they're busy going after Texas's overreaching tort reform laws that put huge caps on civil suits such as malpractice, while also raising malpractice insurance rates and therefore medical charges? Would it be wrong of them to let somebody else take the lead on other issues? The world is not going to fall apart if not everybody agrees with you politically. And if you really look at an artist's personal life, you're pretty much always going to find something you don't like (How many touring musicians have committed statutory rape, for instance?) It's a lot easier to just find music you like and enjoy it, instead of combing through their personal lives and finding artists who agree with your particular ethical leanings. _________________ Scriptozoology, a screenwriting blog .. Facebook |
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Joined: 04 Mar 2004 | Posts: 11753 | Location: Toledo, OR
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:40 am
boone wrote: The world is not going to fall apart if not everybody agrees with you politically. And if you really look at an artist's personal life, you're pretty much always going to find something you don't like (How many touring musicians have committed statutory rape, for instance?) It's a lot easier to just find music you like and enjoy it, instead of combing through their personal lives and finding artists who agree with your particular ethical leanings. this! esp. the part on the touring musicians. _________________ Oneironaut http://www.facebook.com/ChengBand |
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Joined: 06 Sep 2008 | Posts: 1156 | Location: Nashville
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:09 am
dont worry op eisley isn't cashing in on your support or lack there of. they will be a struggling band financially no matter what their beliefs. Putting The marvelous things ep in christian book stores and on christian video channels didn't help. and neither did putting telescope eyes on mtv2 rotation. surely no one is concerned about their stance on things. I just wanted to say...i have never once listented to music and tied my enjoyment to the state they lived in. this thread is a first for me. _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004 | Posts: 4836 | Location: illinois
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:24 am
It's not that I require all my favorite artist to have political views identical to my own. I realize that how stupid that would be. But there comes a point, for me anyway, where I have to draw a line. And I draw that line at issues related to human rights. I don't care how Eisley feels about most political issues, but issues of women's right and gay rights are too important for me to just agree to disagree on. |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004 | Posts: 15 |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:54 am
Simplifying the band's beliefs into the expected Left/Right idea sets would be a grossly inaccurate action. Even worse is making wholesale assumptions about those with potentially different beliefs. Moreover, the band's stance around here has been that Eisley's music is not political and they welcome everyone from all walks of life. Also - while it wasn't the primary reason - politics helped ruin this once beautiful forum, so I'm averse to these discussions ... _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003 | Posts: 25184 | Location: East Texas
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:57 am
Hayley, is that you? _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004 | Posts: 4836 | Location: illinois
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:46 pm
One of the saddest false equivalencies in political wedge issues is between abortion and marriage equality. _________________ EisleyForever wrote: you're A-list in my heart! MAKECOLDPLAYHISTORY |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005 | Posts: 8868 | Location: Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:51 am
I am a Christian, conservative, a homeschooler, and pro-life. I do not consider myself to be ignorant of the issues at hand (although I am not as well informed as I should be). To criticize Christie as having received a poor education for not believing in evolution, is frankly, ignorant. Lots of scientists promote intelligent design. I've been to Intelligent Design vs. Evolutionism debates in Los Angeles. It's not a popular stance but it is not unheard of or considered without merit. I'm also from Texas and could not be prouder. I'm glad that Pro-Life is gaining momentum and hopefully abortion clinics will be closing. I'm sick of hearing the "woman's body" argument. A baby is an individual with its own body and its own unique genetic code that is distinct from its mother's. |
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Joined: 03 Jun 2008 | Posts: 258 |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:41 am
tungsten wrote: I am a Christian, conservative, a homeschooler, and pro-life. I do not consider myself to be ignorant of the issues at hand (although I am not as well informed as I should be).
... I'm sick of hearing the "woman's body" argument. A baby is an individual with its own body and its own unique genetic code that is distinct from its mother's. Of all the things you say you are, you don't mention being a woman, and that bit about "woman's body" argument comes off badly and undermines all the other things you support that i agree with because it sounds completely different coming from a man than a woman, and moreso a mother vs. someone who's never carried a child. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB           
 = personal fave  = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:03 am
[quote="tungsten"] To criticize Christie as having received a poor education for not believing in evolution, is frankly, ignorant. Lots of scientists promote intelligent design. [/quote] I'm sorry, who's ignorant here? Lots of scientists promote intelligent design you say? I guess we'd better define scientists as "people who actually scientifically study this issue." Intelligent design is not even science, it's religion and there is not a single scientific finding that shows otherwise. And don't send me that youtube video claiming to prove that god must have created the banana because it's hand-shaped and has a pull tab. That's neither science nor a "finding". Am I really in the minority of Eisley fans here simply because I believe that women should be allowed to choose what they want to do with their own bodies and that evolution is actually a thing? |
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Joined: 21 Jul 2004 | Posts: 15 |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:10 am
wilsmith wrote: tungsten wrote: I am a Christian, conservative, a homeschooler, and pro-life. I do not consider myself to be ignorant of the issues at hand (although I am not as well informed as I should be).
... I'm sick of hearing the "woman's body" argument. A baby is an individual with its own body and its own unique genetic code that is distinct from its mother's. Of all the things you say you are, you don't mention being a woman, and that bit about "woman's body" argument comes off badly and undermines all the other things you support that i agree with because it sounds completely different coming from a man than a woman, and moreso a mother vs. someone who's never carried a child. should the father not have any rights at all? I don't get why people say a man can't be pro life because it's not his body? it's his kid after all. i find it funny that if the mom doesnt want the baby, the father has no say and can't do a thing about it. but if the father doesn't want the baby, and the momma does, he has to pay child support, because it's his kid. if the mom can disown the child, why can't the father? i am being overly critical of course because i do think the father should take care of the child. but where do his rights begin and end when it comes to the child? and painapro, people are going to disagree with you in life, it happens. get used to it. it doesn't make then any less human. _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004 | Posts: 4836 | Location: illinois
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:27 am
Painaporo wrote: Am I really in the minority of Eisley fans here simply because I believe that women should be allowed to choose what they want to do with their own bodies and that evolution is actually a thing? not by any means! but you could do with adjusting your attitude towards people a little bit. while i may not agree with christie's stance on things the comments made are uncalled for. myself being an uncertified and untrained theory of knowledge philosopher, I hold that truth is only, after all, how you perceive it to be. what you may see as truth, others may not and vice-versa. people aren't going to agree with you, and you're not going to agree with them; but i find that's a bad reason to cut them off as you miss out on experiences, relationships, perspectives, and ideas. _________________ Oneironaut http://www.facebook.com/ChengBand |
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Joined: 06 Sep 2008 | Posts: 1156 | Location: Nashville
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:01 am
tungsten wrote: I am a Christian, conservative, a homeschooler, and pro-life. I do not consider myself to be ignorant of the issues at hand (although I am not as well informed as I should be).
To criticize Christie as having received a poor education for not believing in evolution, is frankly, ignorant. Lots of scientists promote intelligent design. I've been to Intelligent Design vs. Evolutionism debates in Los Angeles. It's not a popular stance but it is not unheard of or considered without merit. I'm also from Texas and could not be prouder. I'm glad that Pro-Life is gaining momentum and hopefully abortion clinics will be closing. I'm sick of hearing the "woman's body" argument. A baby is an individual with its own body and its own unique genetic code that is distinct from its mother's. Not all that interested in this debate, but as someone who does believe in a higher power of some sort, I personally view [evolution] as a mechanism and everything else varying degrees of allegory, but that's where my personal opinion on it ends, because to quote the late, great Carl Sagan, "evolution is a fact, not a theory. It really happened." And I didn't say Christie was uneducated because she doesn't believe in evolution; I said she was uneducated because she is. It wasn't a put-down so much as it is a fact. She did not complete high school, and what they considered high school level work when she was doing it was not remotely as rigorous as the work your average high school student is expected to complete. She also didn't pursue higher education. Thus, she is, by society's standards, "uneducated." It's not that she isn't intelligent, in that she is lacking in aptitude; quite the opposite... I think most would see the potential there, but she has decided to forgo that kind of study, and that's her choice. And it's my choice, as a result, to not take her opinions on politics or science very seriously. However, I will say that her response to questions about evolution were really saddening, mostly because she clearly had no understanding of what it meant. It's one thing to learn something and reject it (I'm a big fan of unlearning), but it's another to reject something you simply don't understand (when someone asked her if she "believed," she asked if they meant "that monkey thing?" before exclaiming, "nah!"). And as someone who has partaken in many a political post, I really resent this: TheAntrider wrote: Also - while it wasn't the primary reason - politics helped ruin this once beautiful forum, so I'm averse to these discussions .. Laughing City has supported some of the most thought-provoking discussion I've had the pleasure of partaking in, and especially in retrospect I've found myself really grateful to have had the chance of being exposed to such a variety of perspectives. Inorbit, Wil, Black Joe, Sprocket, Hannah, Tyler, Gundamit, Boone, and so on, are super thoughtful and unique individuals that I would have very likely otherwise never known, at least to the extent that I know them now, if it wasn't for that element of the forum. I actually find it a shame that in most cases that capacity is so limited. I've gotten a lot out of this place over the past 6 years (more than you may ever know) that I wouldn't have if it had remained mostly an excessively policed retreat for sensitive, religious sycophants. And furthermore, nothing ruined this forum. For better or for worse, mostly what happened is that people moved on in some way, whether it was to another marketing channel like Instagram, in the case of the sycophants, or just beyond this sort of thing in their own personal life. I do miss its former glory, but the only constant is change, or something... _________________ Albert Camus wrote: Always go too far, because that's where you'll find the truth. |
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Joined: 04 May 2007 | Posts: 3862 |
Last edited by tahruh on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:22 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:58 pm
mr pine wrote: wilsmith wrote: tungsten wrote: I am a Christian, conservative, a homeschooler, and pro-life. I do not consider myself to be ignorant of the issues at hand (although I am not as well informed as I should be).
... I'm sick of hearing the "woman's body" argument. A baby is an individual with its own body and its own unique genetic code that is distinct from its mother's. Of all the things you say you are, you don't mention being a woman, and that bit about "woman's body" argument comes off badly and undermines all the other things you support that i agree with because it sounds completely different coming from a man than a woman, and moreso a mother vs. someone who's never carried a child. should the father not have any rights at all? I don't get why people say a man can't be pro life because it's not his body? it's his kid after all. i find it funny that if the mom doesnt want the baby, the father has no say and can't do a thing about it. but if the father doesn't want the baby, and the momma does, he has to pay child support, because it's his kid. if the mom can disown the child, why can't the father? i am being overly critical of course because i do think the father should take care of the child. but where do his rights begin and end when it comes to the child? and painapro, people are going to disagree with you in life, it happens. get used to it. it doesn't make then any less human. You took my statement more broad than I intended, but nothing nee there. I was referring specifically to " I'm sick of this whole woman's body..." Regardless of the point intended, that is just NOT going to further the discussion. A child is a life, symbiotic & occasionally parasitic. Honestly, until a man knows what it feels like to carry a child inside of his body for 9 months, we should focus on other parts of the conversation. I already addressed my conviction that men have a place in the conversation so I'm with you on mutual responsibility & accountability for the child but we men don't know crap about gestation & labor. Heck, it's a biblical curse for original sin... _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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