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Adam the Human
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Man In The Moon: OK I'm not going to quote your post, but I am responding to it.

Yes the things I said I dislike all have what in common....they are groups of people who deny others their fundamental human rights due to their own fears and prejudices. So I'm not being hypocritical.

Secondly, I'm not Pete Wentz or Lady Gaga. And I'm not offended for you when somebody or some group discriminates against you as a gay man. I'm offended because I am endowed with empathy and not only can I put myself in your shoes, but there have been many times when I have been discriminated against.

Please read my entire posts because I'm going to repeat myself now. We are all humans and we are all in the same boat. Discrimination is discrimination and double standards are double standards--they never make sense and they are never right.

And the fact that two black men, MLK or Malcolm X, brought the biggest amount of change and awareness to the struggle for civil rights, should not necessarily be viewed as a positive in my mind. You think we, as a conscientious society, should stand by for a hundred years while our fellow human beings are being subjugated and not speak up just because we don't share the same skin color or have the same sexual preference as them, as the case may be? That viewpoint is just as narrow-minded as that of the people who are doing the discriminating.

You act as if I've never spoken to people within the LGBT community and am just going off on my own merry escapade. I'm from NYC. My entire upbringing has been around people of every conceivable race, color, creed, sexual orientation--you name it. And my circle of friends is made up of the same. My sister is a lesbian.

By the way, you're right that it's more effective for somebody within the community/minority t make a stand...but that's because, unfortunately, most people share your stance that "outsiders" to that community are trying to martyr themselves for your cause because they think it will make them look cool. The worst part about that is they're absolutely right a lot of the time. Like I said, I don't speak for them. I promise you that if I take a stand or fight for a cause, it's 100% genuine.

Finally, the women who wouldn't be pleased about the feminist movement being predominantly pushed by men, wouldn't be doing it for the right reasons anyway. The point is equality. You think if we achieved gender equality as a society but a man was the prime mover behind the cause that women would abandon it? That wouldn't make much sense.
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 | Posts: 62 | Location: New York
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Adam the Human
Sea Post King


Postscript:

I just watched that youtube video you linked to in your post...wow that guy is just as pigheaded and divisive as his oppressors. He has the type of personality that if he happened to be born white in the early 1800's, he would have been leading the lynch mobs. His jealousy and biases are so transparent. If he is the spokesperson for the LGBT community, I fear the cause will be set back a hundred years. If everyone shared his stance, the whole world would be segregated.
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 | Posts: 62 | Location: New York
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The Man In The Moon
Lost at Forum


Adam the Human wrote:

You think we, as a conscientious society, should stand by for a hundred years while our fellow human beings are being subjugated and not speak up just because we don't share the same skin color or have the same sexual preference as them, as the case may be? That viewpoint is just as narrow-minded as that of the people who are doing the discriminating.


ha, i didn't mean to have that allusion in my posts. awareness should definitely be made by all groups, but it's more effective coming from that group and more representative. i just think it's a territory that should be treaded on carefully (like telling somebody else what's best for them, without getting to know them. though, this might be slightly different). i get where you're coming from more now, and i like that you are able to respond and stand up for your beliefs and cause. you got my approval rating, haha.

i meant the feminist movement comment in humor. it might go into the concept of battle of the sexes though. i just think it would be strange though just because a man in no way could fully relate to the experiences of a woman and vice-versa. i'm not saying men shouldn't support the cause, but again they may not relate to it and be able to convey the cause effectively.

sadly, racism and sexism is still heavily prevalent in the united states. it's just harder to see and call out now as it's more hidden. with outright racial discrimination in work and business being illegal, it's now practiced in more covert ways that are hard to prove and catch.

with all this aside, i think this thread has been excellent in pointing out how we all have inconsistencies and hidden undertone prejudices as human beings.

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The Man In The Moon
Lost at Forum


Adam the Human wrote:
Postscript:

I just watched that youtube video you linked to in your post...wow that guy is just as pigheaded and divisive as his oppressors. He has the type of personality that if he happened to be born white in the early 1800's, he would have been leading the lynch mobs. His jealousy and biases are so transparent. If he is the spokesperson for the LGBT community, I fear the cause will be set back a hundred years. If everyone shared his stance, the whole world would be segregated.


like i said, i don't go to his extreme, but he brings up points that are valid.

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MacRVA
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Adam the Human wrote:
Dude, if you actually took the time to read my entire comment and not jump on the one thing that you share a personal and visceral bias for, you would know that I am talking about CONCEPTS, not moral value judgments. I am pro-choice. But being pro-choice and equating abortion with homicide are not mutually exclusive. Homicide is not murder. And I was very careful in choosing my words. Homicide is a legal term with no moral connotation assigned to it. It simply means one human killing another human.
...
You have to learn that just because you disagree with something on a macro level doesn't mean that there aren't valid arguments which don't conform to your viewpoint.


As much as you have accused me of jumping to conclusions and being irrational, I think you seem a lot angrier and more defensive than I did.

I did read your entire post, and regardless of what you may have misconstrued about me, I am perfectly capable of evaluating individual points and seeing flaws in my own viewpoint. I even said directly that I didn't think my standpoint wasn't without flaws.

And as much as I hate to argument semantics, I can't allow you to say that the word homicide carries no moral connotations. You can't possibly believe that.

Adam the Human wrote:
By the way, MacRVA, I just noticed your sig and I'm trying to remember which episode it's from...I want to say the one where Wesley and his cadet team were trying to execute a dangerous maneuver resulting in the death of their fellow recruit and lied about it...but it might also be the episode "The Drumhead" where a Starfleet investigator was basically conducting a witchhunt on the Enterprise while looking for a supposed spy...

Please enlighten me.


YES! You were right the first time. The episode is called "The First Duty," and yes it's the one where Wesley and the other cadets try to do a maneuver called a Starburst and one of the cadets dies. That episode The Drumhead is also an amazing episode. I just love the speech Picard gives to Wesley about why he has to come forward and confess. Picard is amazing.
Joined: 23 Feb 2011 | Posts: 160 | 
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Adam the Human
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I love me some Star Trek Smile
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 | Posts: 62 | Location: New York
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MacRVA
Sea Post King


Adam the Human wrote:
I love me some Star Trek Smile


As any reasonable, thinking person should!
Joined: 23 Feb 2011 | Posts: 160 | 
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gundamit
Golly, Poster


wilsmith wrote:
What's my point?
I dunno. I got lost way back when you did the King Solomon story. If I'm an editor of the Bible and that story shows up on my desk I'm asking for a rewrite. What's the point? Are we trying to frame the idea that Solomon is wise/smart? Scooby and those darn kids could have figured that mystery out. The only thing really not clear is why did the lady who lied about the baby to claim ownership, not just say "thank you very much" and walk off with the baby when the other lady offered it up in lieu of cutting it in half?

Oh ... and Star Trek/Wars/Whatever sucks. Except for the original series. The subsequent series were a lot less funny.

/Trolling

Seriously though, I'm really enjoying this thread. Would like to know what wilsmith thinks would help immunize kids from the culture that opportunists promote for profit.

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wilsmith
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How does a society immunize their youth from the Opportunists:

Good parenting/ parental relationships for starters. Reasonable/ thoughtful parents who have a a healthy world view in respect their own views and values that can communicate them to their children in an inclusive way is a key thing. Kids who are happy embrace the culture that is present in their home will be more apt to reject bogus trends and over-hyped influences as just that, and explore things for their own, on their own terms, and judge said things by their own merit, rather than in an effort to fit in or live up to expectations from peers or society.

Having attractive alternatives is always a good thing too. Eisley is a good example of a nice counter-cultural alternative to contemporary culture's idea of what it means to be creatively fulfilled and artistically accomplished as a young adult minus the nihilism, fatalism, aversion to attachment/ commitment, and other cultural attributes that are general anti-social and short-cuts to disillusionment. In their example, I see those value manifest in ideas in action. In one way, they live out that you don't have to go off the deep end, but you can embrace artistic expression. That live in a way that shows that you don't have to divorce yourself from your family or upbringing to mature into adulthood and explore your own creative outlets and self-actualize. Simple stuff like that, but critical things that lead some people to go off on their own down paths towards irresponsible or self-destructive behaviors with dire consequences.

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