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 Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:42 am 
jack_stripes wrote: keltica wrote: I agree with Lantz. If a movie is TOO Christian then no one can criticize it, but Christians can criticize Harry Pottery for conversion to Wicca and Golden Compass for encouraging atheism.
Anyways, I'm going to write my first article for an English magazine published in Rome and it will be about this controversy. I'll post it here next week  (wednesday is the deadline).people can criticize it, it's just that the majority of people in North America call themselves Christian, so obviously the Christian voice would be heard louder than the others. Not to mention killing God would be seen as a bad thing in most religions, and not just Christianity. I think it's funny how in the Christian community they always ways try to expose the 'fake' Christians. But they use the BIG numbers to describe how Christian America is. _________________ Power is only pain It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in. "Can we get control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature, such as self preservation?" -memo from 1952 Project ARTICHOKE 
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:44 am
mr pine wrote: jack_stripes wrote: keltica wrote: I agree with Lantz. If a movie is TOO Christian then no one can criticize it, but Christians can criticize Harry Pottery for conversion to Wicca and Golden Compass for encouraging atheism.
Anyways, I'm going to write my first article for an English magazine published in Rome and it will be about this controversy. I'll post it here next week (wednesday is the deadline).people can criticize it, it's just that the majority of people in North America call themselves Christian, so obviously the Christian voice would be heard louder than the others. Not to mention killing God would be seen as a bad thing in most religions, and not just Christianity. i couldnt disagree with these two statements more. it seems to me that anything christian is overtly criticized or made fun of. yet you dont hear the same words being said of things islamic or buddist or hinduist. it seems to me that the brunt of all hatred, anger and resentment is pushed towards christianity. if people did to islamic people what they did to christian people, the aclu would be in an uproar. its mostly christianity that gets all the critisizm Try being Jewish. _________________ www.kailahandler.bandcamp.com |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:44 am
mr pine wrote: it seems to me that anything christian is overtly criticized or made fun of. yet you dont hear the same words being said of things islamic or buddist or hinduist.
it seems to me that the brunt of all hatred, anger and resentment is pushed towards christianity. if people did to islamic people what they did to christian people, the aclu would be in an uproar. its mostly christianity that gets all the critisizm Of course Christianity gets the criticism in America. That's like asking why you don't hear enough criticism of Gordon Brown. What are Buddhists and Hindus doing in America to warrant criticism? Criticism of Islam is a little different. It's not that prevalent here, and certainly not dominant, so you don't hear as much criticism. In places where it is prevalent, however, criticism (or any sort of offense) is quite frequently enough to cause riots and calls for your death. |
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003 | Posts: 374 | Location: Seattle, Washington
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:44 am
And now officially, this topic IS off topic. Stop! _________________ www.kailahandler.bandcamp.com |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:45 am
mr pine wrote: jack_stripes wrote: keltica wrote: I agree with Lantz. If a movie is TOO Christian then no one can criticize it, but Christians can criticize Harry Pottery for conversion to Wicca and Golden Compass for encouraging atheism.
Anyways, I'm going to write my first article for an English magazine published in Rome and it will be about this controversy. I'll post it here next week (wednesday is the deadline).people can criticize it, it's just that the majority of people in North America call themselves Christian, so obviously the Christian voice would be heard louder than the others. Not to mention killing God would be seen as a bad thing in most religions, and not just Christianity. i couldnt disagree with these two statements more. it seems to me that anything christian is overtly criticized or made fun of. yet you dont hear the same words being said of things islamic or buddist or hinduist. it seems to me that the brunt of all hatred, anger and resentment is pushed towards christianity. if people did to islamic people what they did to christian people, the aclu would be in an uproar. its mostly christianity that gets all the critisizm i think it depends on your environment, because that's certainly not the case where i live. Some television attacks perceptions of christianity, but some television doesn't. Pantheon4 wrote: jack_stripes wrote: keltica wrote: I agree with Lantz. If a movie is TOO Christian then no one can criticize it, but Christians can criticize Harry Pottery for conversion to Wicca and Golden Compass for encouraging atheism.
Anyways, I'm going to write my first article for an English magazine published in Rome and it will be about this controversy. I'll post it here next week (wednesday is the deadline).people can criticize it, it's just that the majority of people in North America call themselves Christian, so obviously the Christian voice would be heard louder than the others. Not to mention killing God would be seen as a bad thing in most religions, and not just Christianity. I think it's funny how in the Christian community they always ways try to expose the 'fake' Christians. But they use the BIG numbers to describe how Christian America is. i hope you aren't talking about me, because that'd be a pretty big generalization. But, uh...i personally wouldn't use big numbers to describe christianity in america, at least not from what i see. that's why i said "call themselves christian." oh, and to stay on topic, so are the animals, like...representing human souls? like...is that they're soul in a physical form? _________________ chinese food makes me sick |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:56 am
mr pine wrote: jack_stripes wrote: keltica wrote: I agree with Lantz. If a movie is TOO Christian then no one can criticize it, but Christians can criticize Harry Pottery for conversion to Wicca and Golden Compass for encouraging atheism.
Anyways, I'm going to write my first article for an English magazine published in Rome and it will be about this controversy. I'll post it here next week (wednesday is the deadline).people can criticize it, it's just that the majority of people in North America call themselves Christian, so obviously the Christian voice would be heard louder than the others. Not to mention killing God would be seen as a bad thing in most religions, and not just Christianity. i couldnt disagree with these two statements more. it seems to me that anything christian is overtly criticized or made fun of. yet you dont hear the same words being said of things islamic or buddist or hinduist. it seems to me that the brunt of all hatred, anger and resentment is pushed towards christianity. if people did to islamic people what they did to christian people, the aclu would be in an uproar. its mostly christianity that gets all the critisizm I hear criticism about Islam ALL THE TIME! Hindus and Buddhists don't get that much flack because they aren't trying to control the government. And to your other point about the ACLU... _________________ Power is only pain It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in. "Can we get control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature, such as self preservation?" -memo from 1952 Project ARTICHOKE
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:00 am
jack_stripes wrote: oh, and to stay on topic, so are the animals, like...representing human souls? like...is that they're soul in a physical form? I'm not sure, but I haven't finished reading this book (about 30 pages left) let alone the others in the trilogy. In one part Lyra asks what the daemons are for, and I think whoever she was speaking to just said that nobody was sure? They seem to represent their souls though, that's pretty much what I get from it. Either way, I want one  _________________ www.kailahandler.bandcamp.com |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:01 am
jack_stripes wrote: Pantheon4 wrote: jack_stripes wrote: keltica wrote: I agree with Lantz. If a movie is TOO Christian then no one can criticize it, but Christians can criticize Harry Pottery for conversion to Wicca and Golden Compass for encouraging atheism.
Anyways, I'm going to write my first article for an English magazine published in Rome and it will be about this controversy. I'll post it here next week (wednesday is the deadline).people can criticize it, it's just that the majority of people in North America call themselves Christian, so obviously the Christian voice would be heard louder than the others. Not to mention killing God would be seen as a bad thing in most religions, and not just Christianity. I think it's funny how in the Christian community they always ways try to expose the 'fake' Christians. But they use the BIG numbers to describe how Christian America is. i hope you aren't talking about me, because that'd be a pretty big generalization. But, uh...i personally wouldn't use big numbers to describe christianity in america, at least not from what i see. that's why i said "call themselves christian." oh, and to stay on topic, so are the animals, like...representing human souls? like...is that they're soul in a physical form? I wasn't talking about you. I'm talking about people who try to further their agenda by trying to make it look like most Americans think like them, while they criticize them on Sunday mornings for 'faking Church'. _________________ Power is only pain It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in. "Can we get control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature, such as self preservation?" -memo from 1952 Project ARTICHOKE
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:03 am
kLafied wrote: jack_stripes wrote: oh, and to stay on topic, so are the animals, like...representing human souls? like...is that they're soul in a physical form? I'm not sure, but I haven't finished reading this book (about 30 pages left) let alone the others in the trilogy. In one part Lyra asks what the daemons are for, and I think whoever she was speaking to just said that nobody was sure? They seem to represent their souls though, that's pretty much what I get from it. Either way, I want one i want one too. i was just wondering that, though because in the trailers it looked like Daniel Craig's was a female, and i thought that didn't quite fit. _________________ chinese food makes me sick |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:09 am
jack_stripes wrote: kLafied wrote: jack_stripes wrote: oh, and to stay on topic, so are the animals, like...representing human souls? like...is that they're soul in a physical form? I'm not sure, but I haven't finished reading this book (about 30 pages left) let alone the others in the trilogy. In one part Lyra asks what the daemons are for, and I think whoever she was speaking to just said that nobody was sure? They seem to represent their souls though, that's pretty much what I get from it. Either way, I want one i want one too. i was just wondering that, though because in the trailers it looked like Daniel Craig's was a female, and i thought that didn't quite fit. Yeah, and I think Lyra's is male. In the trailer it said "they need the animals as much as they need their own heart," or something along those lines. It must be similar to a limb or an organ, very important. It still could be like a soul. I don't know. _________________ www.kailahandler.bandcamp.com |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:33 pm
kLafied wrote: jack_stripes wrote: kLafied wrote: jack_stripes wrote: oh, and to stay on topic, so are the animals, like...representing human souls? like...is that they're soul in a physical form? I'm not sure, but I haven't finished reading this book (about 30 pages left) let alone the others in the trilogy. In one part Lyra asks what the daemons are for, and I think whoever she was speaking to just said that nobody was sure? They seem to represent their souls though, that's pretty much what I get from it. Either way, I want one i want one too. i was just wondering that, though because in the trailers it looked like Daniel Craig's was a female, and i thought that didn't quite fit. Yeah, and I think Lyra's is male. In the trailer it said "they need the animals as much as they need their own heart," or something along those lines. It must be similar to a limb or an organ, very important. It still could be like a soul. I don't know. I haven't read those books in a long time, but I think I remember in the 2nd one they used a special material (the Subtle Knife) that could cut through anything, including the bond between people and their daemons, and they encountered someone who had that bond broken, and they were just a lifeless (except they were still alive) being wandering around. Something like that, so yes, I guess those creatures are pretty darn important to their... owners? |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:00 pm
http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2007/11/25/god_in_the_dust/ great article that adresses the controversy in the movie (and takes a christian analysis of the story). here's my personal experience with the books: i read them when i was about 12-14. at the time, i was going a catholic junior high and had been going to catholic school since age 5. when i read "the amber spyglass" i was completely shocked at the notions in it. the idea that there really was no god was completely incomprehensible to me. why was this? because i was only ever given one perspective about my faith. did the books cause me to be an atheist? nope, they just made me think about my faith more. i think that's a POSITIVE thing that can come from reading the books. questioning one's faith isn't a bad thing, it's all about learning more about what you believe and growing from it. once again, i think it needs to be reiterated that THEY DO NOT KILL GOD IN THE BOOK. it's a false god. i'm not going to go into it too much, because i think the article states it far better. i think when pullman says he wants to create atheists he may just want people to look at the religious hierarchy in many faiths. in the books, the Catholic church has split into ruling parties vying for power. obviously, he's trying to mirror (in an extreme way) the corruption in the real world. is that a bad thing? no, because it incites a discussion about what needs to change. and like someone said before, the main point of the book are those age-old themes "good triumphs over evil" and "love conquers all." if the books have a positive outcome, then how can they be "evil," as so many people claim? _________________ http://thegirlinthebearhat.tumblr.com/ |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:56 pm
dont_panic wrote: http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2007/11/25/god_in_the_d ust/
great article that adresses the controversy in the movie (and takes a christian analysis of the story). here's my personal experience with the books: i read them when i was about 12-14. at the time, i was going a catholic junior high and had been going to catholic school since age 5. when i read "the amber spyglass" i was completely shocked at the notions in it. the idea that there really was no god was completely incomprehensible to me. why was this? because i was only ever given one perspective about my faith. did the books cause me to be an atheist? nope, they just made me think about my faith more. i think that's a POSITIVE thing that can come from reading the books. questioning one's faith isn't a bad thing, it's all about learning more about what you believe and growing from it. once again, i think it needs to be reiterated that THEY DO NOT KILL GOD IN THE BOOK. it's a false god. i'm not going to go into it too much, because i think the article states it far better. i think when pullman says he wants to create atheists he may just want people to look at the religious hierarchy in many faiths. in the books, the Catholic church has split into ruling parties vying for power. obviously, he's trying to mirror (in an extreme way) the corruption in the real world. is that a bad thing? no, because it incites a discussion about what needs to change. and like someone said before, the main point of the book are those age-old themes "good triumphs over evil" and "love conquers all." if the books have a positive outcome, then how can they be "evil," as so many people claim? I also read the books around that age (i was like 12 or 13), and I had also been raised Catholic though i didn't go to Catholic school (thank God). My dad's family is really Catholic (they're Italian) and my mom's side is not at all Catholic, and my mom doesn't like the Catholic Church. When I read the parts that make the Christian Church, or any church really, look kind of bad or something, i was just surprised because it was kind of new to me. When, like, the "false" god as you called him died, it just really startled me, because it was so - strong, maybe... but i'd never really believed that God created Earth, and i'd always had my doubts about the faith, so it was just - i dunno... So the books (of course there were a number of other factors as well) really caused me to question my faith. it was the first truly blatant thing that was so so different from what i'd been raised to believe. Now, even though i doubt even more my faith, and the Church, i don't see the books as trying to convert people to atheism, and it kind of bothers me when the Church and some people lash out at the story when they haven't even read it (such as my father), or seen the movie. censorship sucks. But, whatever.... i'm excited for the movie, i only hope they're as good as the books. _________________ melanie |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:07 pm
mr pine wrote: it seems to me that anything christian is overtly criticized or made fun of. yet you dont hear the same words being said of things islamic or buddist or hinduist.
it seems to me that the brunt of all hatred, anger and resentment is pushed towards christianity. if people did to islamic people what they did to christian people, the aclu would be in an uproar. its mostly christianity that gets all the critisizm You clearly didn't watch 30 Rock last week, or the horrific episode of The Suite Life of Zach & Cody that I was subjected to recently. The hatred, anger, resentment, and unfair stereotypes are spread around evenly. Claiming that Christians get it more than anyone else is the Coliseum Complex. Guess what? Nobody's feeding us to lions anymore. We have the freedom to worship as we please, just like everyone else, so why all the whining about persecution? _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:09 pm
Saellys wrote: mr pine wrote: it seems to me that anything christian is overtly criticized or made fun of. yet you dont hear the same words being said of things islamic or buddist or hinduist.
it seems to me that the brunt of all hatred, anger and resentment is pushed towards christianity. if people did to islamic people what they did to christian people, the aclu would be in an uproar. its mostly christianity that gets all the critisizm You clearly didn't watch 30 Rock last week, or the horrific episode of The Suite Life of Zach & Cody that I was subjected to recently. The hatred, anger, resentment, and unfair stereotypes are spread around evenly. Claiming that Christians get it more than anyone else is the Coliseum Complex. Guess what? Nobody's feeding us to lions anymore. We have the freedom to worship as we please, just like everyone else, so why all the whining about persecution? i think since 9/11 muslims get a lot of criticism. and as someone said above, how about Jews? they're always the scape goats in history. _________________ melanie |
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