Laughing City

Is voluntary contribution from fans to artists for used cd purchases feasible?
With the right safe-guards, yes
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
Maybe, but it could get really sketchy real quick
71%
 71%  [ 10 ]
Not likely, the labels would want a cut and take it down
14%
 14%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 14

Author Message
wilsmith
Vintage Newbie


I've been sitting on this for a while,

10 or more years ago selling Used Cds was Napster-like in its infamy because the labels and artists saw no revenue from the sales. It was hard to regulate as well, but an unstoppable force.

I, being a Used cd buyer, understood this and felt guilty, to make up for it I would try to

A: Go to a live show, and redistribute the wealth

B: Buy their indie cd or download when they released a newer recording (after they were dropped by the label if they were signed, as it usually happened)

I can't say I always followed through but I tried. I couldn't think of a better way to support, that is, until the age of Paypal. Labels have the Mechanical rights for the production of said physical cd, and are recouped that from the sale of said cd.

The intellectual property on the cd is another ball of wax, depending on how the artists deal was negotiated.

Canada's got it good, they have national endowments for their indie rock bands. No joke, Land of Talk and The Stills both got help.

So, if you know royalties, at one point 8% was the highest rate an artist got of cd sales back in the day, and that was way high (Guns and Roses got that deal I believe in their prime). So I thought, the labels are the devil anyways, so why not send 8% of what you pay for a used cd to the artist?

If they have a legit paypal or even a verifiable PO box, just send them the doe? It wouldn't be much, but since physical cds are a revolving door purchase (1 cd can be sold an infinite number of times if it's maintained, and desirable) artists could really benefit from fans good will.

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bigideas
Vintage Newbie


Isn't there the American law called something like Right of First Sale?

It basically means once someone buys something they can resell it?

I don't know that I would do this. I buy a lot of records. Ones that I'm iffy on I might buy used if I find it. Older stuff (like all the 90's stuff we talked about) they were already compensated so I'm not sure I see your point about paying them again.

Also, would you extend to the world beyond music, too?

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wilsmith
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bigideas wrote:
Isn't there the American law called something like Right of First Sale?

It basically means once someone buys something they can resell it?

I don't know that I would do this. I buy a lot of records. Ones that I'm iffy on I might buy used if I find it. Older stuff (like all the 90's stuff we talked about) they were already compensated so I'm not sure I see your point about paying them again.

Also, would you extend to the world beyond music, too?


The conflict back then, as is the issue now, is intellectual property and its value. See, there are performance rights to music and artists or the copyright holders get paid for that by bars and clubs where music is played, radio etc. Mechanical rights are the rights to reproduce the music, and of course copyrights, which is general ownership and authorship, where the person who controls those gets to decide what is done with the music and gets paid. Used cds have returned their value on mechanical rights, but that's all, that's why they have that intellectual property "do not copy" verbiage on them.

So this whole mumbojumbo with digital rights is a retreat. Before magnetic cassettes it was very hard to reproduce music, and thus the rights thing was easy because you either had to buy the vinyl, have a lithograph, or buy the sheet music. Once magnetic tapes came into the picture there was hullaballoo about recording music off the radio and to date that is still not legal. Well cds were a fixed media originally, meaning there would be no recording, and if so, it would be degraded and not as good. But that changed when the technology to rip and burn came along, two things that outside of backing up your collection, are technically illegal. Same ____ different day the saying goes...

Well, the general consensus I've always heard is that the artists get ripped off the worst, making only pennies on the dollar, and only for the original sale (after their recoupable). So, this idea of mine actually would apply to MP3/ AAC files too.

If the art has value, then in a guilty heart moment, wouldn't it be a nice gesture to pay something for it?

If they only negotiated 4 cents on the dollar for their art, why not pay that to them when it comes into our hands, no matter the channel? We do it at concerts, and it feels a little better because we get the show, and hopefully they're getting most of the doe.

So, for the Uber-collectors, used cd and mp3, it could get really expensive if you shilled out for everything, but I don't believe you should be renumerating crummy music you don't like (unless you're gifting it to someone who Does like it). I'm thinking, if I have 40 songs I like by an artist via used cds or mp3s I've come across, at a nickel a song that's $2 I can sent them. Totally voluntarily, particularly if they don't ever come play my town or have merch I can afford.

Recently I've seen people I listen to auction off private concerts to fund records and things like that, which is fine I guess, but if they have you know like 10,000 hard core fans domestically, and each one throws in a few bucks, the music may pay for itself, and us fans for said artist don't have to worry about whether or not they will be able to go on.

Goodness, I just realized I'm talking about tithing in a round-about way...

The thing is, they would still have to make a legit living, so this is just supplemental. If they have a lot of mouths to feed or live beyond their means, this couldn't cover that. I guess there would have to be transparency like with Non-profits, where they have to disclose their finances to continue getting their tax exempt status.

It's a weird Utopian idea, but in a day and age when the internet as flattened the distribution landscape, and a recording studio is a mouse click away, the era of the almost could've been is over, if we want it to be. It's just a matter of learning how to start the change.

It's like a cyber-tip jar/ collection plate. Just a thought. Not a popular one though by the poll talley thus far. Call me Mr. TLDR

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bigideas
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Are you saying record labels get money from the Used CD sale?

Also, for the most part, I wouldn't think this would help many bands other than the one hit wonder types who have tons of used cd's in the racks - i.e. Chumbawumba, Macarena, Are you Jimmy Ray?, or artists who kinda fell out of the business.

Then again, people probably aren't buying their records used either.

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wilsmith
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bigideas wrote:
Are you saying record labels get money from the Used CD sale?

Also, for the most part, I wouldn't think this would help many bands other than the one hit wonder types who have tons of used cd's in the racks - i.e. Chumbawumba, Macarena, Are you Jimmy Ray?, or artists who kinda fell out of the business.

Then again, people probably aren't buying their records used either.


Labels don't get anything past the original purchase, no one does cept the people who sell the cd to the shops, and the shops who resell it.

Honestly it doesn't take a lot of cds, just the cd being recirculated. Honestly, the more cds in the used bins it seems the fewer being sold, it's those ones I scarsely find, new or used, that I tend to buy.

Jimmy Ray, WOW, that's even more obscure than Ahmad!

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bigideas
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I've seen the Jimmy Ray CD in used stores a lot over the years.
Otherwise I would have forgotten it.

Ahmad had a mini comeback. I remember they used Back in the Days on a movie soundtrack several years later.

I remember a friend at school let me borrow his Outkast tape (southernplayalistic - before they got big) if i'd let him borrow Ahmad.

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wilsmith
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bigideas wrote:
I've seen the Jimmy Ray CD in used stores a lot over the years.
Otherwise I would have forgotten it.

Ahmad had a mini comeback. I remember they used Back in the Days on a movie soundtrack several years later.

I remember a friend at school let me borrow his Outkast tape (southernplayalistic - before they got big) if i'd let him borrow Ahmad.


Yeah, that was 93-94 when southernplayer... came out, I had Erick Sermon on Cd or something, and a friend had that, and was like - Check THIS out, and I was Mr. East Coast at the time, but track 2 Ain't No Thang... that song was like a warning shot of things to come, the production was so perfectly futuristic for that time period...

Ahmad was part of a really mellow group of LA and Oakland rappers, some real talent and minor success in the long haul...

anybody remember

Domino
The Nonce
Souls of Mischief
Freestyle Fellowship/ Aceyalone

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bigideas
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wilsmith wrote:

Domino


all messed up and i don't know why...

i was actually checking wiki on him fairly recently.
i didn't realize he was accused of stealing Snoop's style - granted all i heard was Sweet Potato Pie that i'm aware of.
if he sounded like early Snoop then i may need to look that up.

never heard of the others.

the other day i heard "new flava in ya ear" for the first time in a long time.

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wilsmith
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bigideas wrote:
wilsmith wrote:

Domino


all messed up and i don't know why...

i was actually checking wiki on him fairly recently.
i didn't realize he was accused of stealing Snoop's style - granted all i heard was Sweet Potato Pie that i'm aware of.
if he sounded like early Snoop then i may need to look that up.

never heard of the others.

the other day i heard "new flava in ya ear" for the first time in a long time.


the others never got big at all, The Nonce had a song called Mixtapes that was pretty laid back and space...

Domino's biggest hit was Ghetto Jam, he got that flack about snoop because had a sing songy voice in that odd register, and was really laid back, back when Snoop and Smooth B from Nice and Smooth were the only laid back rappers.

Flava in Your Ear - Craig Mack, man that original song was so cool at the time, space hip hop minimalism, where did it go after all these years?

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bigideas
Vintage Newbie


wilsmith wrote:
bigideas wrote:
wilsmith wrote:

Domino


all messed up and i don't know why...

i was actually checking wiki on him fairly recently.
i didn't realize he was accused of stealing Snoop's style - granted all i heard was Sweet Potato Pie that i'm aware of.
if he sounded like early Snoop then i may need to look that up.

never heard of the others.

the other day i heard "new flava in ya ear" for the first time in a long time.


the others never got big at all, The Nonce had a song called Mixtapes that was pretty laid back and space...

Domino's biggest hit was Ghetto Jam, he got that flack about snoop because had a sing songy voice in that odd register, and was really laid back, back when Snoop and Smooth B from Nice and Smooth were the only laid back rappers.

Flava in Your Ear - Craig Mack, man that original song was so cool at the time, space hip hop minimalism, where did it go after all these years?


i looked up the Flava in Ya Ear video on youtube and one of the videos it linked to was Keith Murray The Most Beautifulest Thing in this World.

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starbucksgod
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I know there is a lot of business mumbo jumbo that I understand nothing about involved in all this; however, i think the record company got the cut for the album when it originally bought. Theres the cut. I don't think getting a second cut for a resale is necessary.
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wilsmith
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starbucksgod wrote:
I know there is a lot of business mumbo jumbo that I understand nothing about involved in all this; however, i think the record company got the cut for the album when it originally bought. Theres the cut. I don't think getting a second cut for a resale is necessary.


That's how I feel too, but that's why it was a controversy 13 years ago or so. I'm of the belief that it would be a good gesture to give a little bit to the artists who made the music, to help them out, cause no one's supporting them on those used transactions, and downloads, and it's a way fans can keep em' going in hard times and show some love.

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