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 Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:29 am 
wilsmith wrote: 
Classic 
Read his post- Its pretty spot on--- 'cept he's about a decade late. 1) The original Emo bands started in the 80's- and included people no less cred than, say, Ian McKaye (no, not with Fugazi). What you guys call the "original emo bands" were very much 2nd wave. by then you had bands like JEW and Jawbreaker "going emo" (neither of whom were originally "emo" by anyones definition) to cash in. 2) More importantly, from my standpoint, the entire notion of "emo" as an independent genre was superfluous and redundant to begin with. Why? because everything that they offered had already been done by the early to mid eighties by bands no-one would dare call emo. Viz, some of the stuff by these guys or even, heaven forbid these guys from the early 80's sounds indistinguishable from first and even 2nd (90's) wave emo to me (and I'm not the first person to notice). (and yes, both bands have done stuff since that sounds a hell of a lot MORE classically emo, but I posted songs from 85 or earlier to make the point.) The only real difference seems to me that bands like these were broader than that, and the emo bands weren't. Is that good? So I'm not voting. 1) Original 'emo' was derivative, redundant and unnecessary. 2) Later emo doesn't even bear mentioning and is intolerable, pathetic , boring, self-indulgent, whiny product. 3) You don't have an "neither" option. |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008 | Posts: 1759 | Location: Dallas
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:24 pm
I did say "If we must choose..." and not "We must choose..." Those two time periods are what I would think are the peaks of popularity of the label and it being thrown around. Kinda like how there was some garage rock bands that might as well be punk bands musically, but were before there was "punk". Sometimes bands like that get Grandfathered in, sometimes they don't. Or how a lot of Alt-Country is just "70's Country-Rock" by younger/ hipper people who didn't identify with the country music out in the 90's. I mean, Neil Young was Grunge & Alt-Country from 1969 forward, so the labels got associated with him retroactively. But to most he's just Classic Rock, Folk Rock, or a Singer Songwriter. It's so subjective. That's why I want a cut or dry poll. To my ear, most of the most popular Emo-type bands I like, end up sounding like Prog-Rock bands on a steriods and lithium cocktail. Most of those bands peaked in the 90's under that label of Emo, and the ones I like now are following that pattern, and it makes me happy. Now if they can just avoid breaking up and take the music as far as it can go I'll be blissed out and amped up all the more. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB           
 = personal fave  = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:07 pm
Since the resurrection of this thread, I'd just like to reiterate: [*clears throat*] emocore before mass popularity ====> emo post-myspace. I think overall it is a healthy yet irrelevant discussion. Think, why do we still refer to the umbrella supergenre as 'rock' anymore? Think about all the changes the genre endured. Going from being 'rock' because there were jungle drumbeats to 'rock' because it had a distorted guitar. I'm NOT saying that people should not ID music with genres, but I think that because we've been using the same one for so long that people don't know how to react when something 'new' comes along. I use the term loosely because rock was just country and and R&B, and Hip-hop was just Doo-wop and Disco when they started. If it's white and not country they'll just call it 'rock'. _________________ Power is only pain It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in. "Can we get control of an individual to the point where he will do our bidding against his will and even against fundamental laws of nature, such as self preservation?" -memo from 1952 Project ARTICHOKE 
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004 | Posts: 10565 | Location: Somewhere in the middle of nowhere
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:34 pm
I thought it was ironic that on your distorted guitar link there is someone on their saying that song isn't punk, and someone begging to differ...
Genre according to race is one of the cheapest, laziest ways to be prejudice, as if melanin can determine your taste in music. Culture knows no color. Cause, seriously if Hip Hop Beats and Soulful singing make you R & B, or mean you're Black... well, you get the picture... It's all pointless... I mean, does this deserve to be stuck with the Blue Eye'd Soul Label? when 13 or so years later it's G-Funk?? The same should go for fashion, tatts, piercing etc. If we are gonna split hairs with music, just keep it honest. I'm the first to say the music I called Emo was sonically different than the music they call emo now, the aesthetics is significantly different. That's what I really was getting at. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:40 pm
wilsmith wrote: I did say "If we must choose..." and not "We must choose..." Those two time periods are what I would think are the peaks of popularity of the label and it being thrown around.
granted wilsmith wrote: Kinda like how there was some garage rock bands that might as well be punk bands musically, but were before there was "punk". Sometimes bands like that get Grandfathered in, sometimes they don't. Or how a lot of Alt-Country is just "70's Country-Rock" by younger/ hipper people who didn't identify with the country music out in the 90's. I mean, Neil Young was Grunge & Alt-Country from 1969 forward, so the labels got associated with him retroactively. But to most he's just Classic Rock, Folk Rock, or a Singer Songwriter. It's so subjective. That's why I want a cut or dry poll. I definitely buy the comparison, 'cept emo is about the only genre I can think of apart from the goth stuff (in which denying the existence of the genre much less their involvement became more or less a litmus test for its forbearers) where no-one wants to be "grandfathered in". Its actually become a term of derision in certain circles. wilsmith wrote: To my ear, most of the most popular Emo-type bands I like, end up sounding like Prog-Rock bands on a steriods and lithium cocktail. Most of those bands peaked in the 90's under that label of Emo, and the ones I like now are following that pattern, and it makes me happy. Now if they can just avoid breaking up and take the music as far as it can go I'll be blissed out and amped up all the more. Yeah, but this brings me back to my point... The vibe you like, loud, intense, proggy stuff; there is nothing about any of that that is distinctively emo. Were the Pumpkins emo? What about MBV, Sonic Youth, 16 Deluxe, YLT, or even (moss)eisley at their best? Kiss me era cure? Nirvana? The Wipers? Nothing's shocking era Jane's addiction? JAMC? More recently Crystal Antlers? All good intense, cathartic, noisy melodic stuff. The point is, whether you are talking about 1st, or early 2nd wave emo vs. some of the more melodic, introspective stuff out of west coast punk, or some of the later stuff that gets marketed as emo vs. any combination of noise/shoegaze/late era melodic goth/noisier neopsy/the noisier stuff that gets sold as "indie", etc, there is nothing distinctive musically that identifies emo. What differentiates emo is the ethos of the pathetic. The self indulgent whining. That and a particularly nauseating marketing-contrived fashion formula that way to many poor unwitting adolescents have taken to adopting as a substitute for an identity; the most pitiful among them taking to acting out what they imagine it represents (and I don't mean record sales) as a substitute for a personality. |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008 | Posts: 1759 | Location: Dallas
Last edited by inorbit on Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:59 pm
Yeah, the label was never a thing to be proud of when i was exposed to it in the 90's. Funny thing is, when I first heard Sunny Day, it was because I liked Nirvana, and a friend who was a scenester in that era figured I would like them. I really liked the fact that they could scream in key, a La Kurt Cobain. That, to me, was the essence of emoting. It wasn't necessarily the lyrical content I was drawn into, it was the raw emotion expressed in a melodic, as opposed to jarring, way. Under those vague terms we could grandfather all the late 80's and 90's bands you mentioned, but most have their own labels they go stuck with, which you also mentioned. Funny though, cause Pumpkins do get an Emo nod from most I know, at least their 92-95 peak period stuff. Soooo... since I did qualify my proposition with specific time periods I am going to assert something here: I am not making a case for the utility of the label anymore, screw that, lost cause. I am comparing two musical trends from 2 particular periods of time, that share a label. We could make the same argument about Hip Hop and R & B as far as the continental drift the music has taken and how estranged from itself it has become in terms of what's popular. Maybe next time. But for now: Since this is the last year of the Y2k.0 I figure it's time to check the stats. Beyond that, I find it interesting that the bands I like now that sound most like the Emo bands of the 90's I liked, aren't really considered Emo bands anymore, cause if they were, I'd have a harder time making my arguments for my love of the 90s version supremely. Now we have Prog-Metal, Math Rock, & Screamo to sort through. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:22 pm
this article about he Sunny Day Reissues looks at this whole issue another way I didn't really consider, or at least not in a flattering way _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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