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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:03 am 
tahruh wrote: ...I really don't care, at this point, about this particular conversation, but I have to say that nothing you posted even remotely suggests that The Valley would be the better choice of second single. Nothing on The Valley (the album) really showcases any currently popular so-called "indie" styles ('chillwave', 'dubstep', 'witch house', etc). I don't think I ever implied that if they were to release the other songs as singles, that they would sky-rocket to fame over night. I'm simply thinking along the lines of which song has the most mass appeal; outside of this forum and fan base, I'm almost positive it's not The Valley. I'm fairly certain I have a grasp on what is and what is not popular among various markets at this time. Also, I have to agree about the "smart" comment -- Wil can't even spell intelligence!   It's not that I can't spell, it's that I didn't bother checking my spelling on the I-mad. Keep in mind I'm not even spelling Will right these days ( I used to. )
Sorry you're bored with the "success" discussion. All my back-building was done to make the final conclusion which I'm going to quote again: "That said, you just have to do what you enjoy, what you feel does you proud, if you are at all interested in enjoying your craft and not feeling like a slave to forces you have No Hope of controlling. For those reasons, I like the Valley." It's not a better choice for the charts, to me it's a good representation of Eisley as a band and maybe even as a brand. As far as what's popular across the genres & varying markets, only each of us know what's on hit out there. It varies regionally, and we all have our means of exposure. I'm just going by the comments in this thread, and how that knowledge is being applied to this argument. We are in an Eisley Bubble around here, and sometimes it shows. When I hear all the self-depreciation the Duprees kick around about chart success, I realize that the part of the joke that's truth (that part every joke has) is the acknowledgment of the reality of the music business/ marketplace. That said I'm assuming they're using some line of logic along the lines of my main point, which I quoted for emphasis. I'm speculating, what do I know??? To me, more than anything, the choice of songs felt like an olive branch to those who wanted what they felt the band got away from in the last 6 years. I could be wrong about that too, but I think it's worth celebrating, and if there's going to be an Eisley song to set the party off, the Valley is the only one I can think of that they're still eager to play live (since they said they hate playing Taking Control on the livestream ). _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB           
= personal fave  = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:35 am
I think the string opening will really stick out in a positive way and set them apart as not just another band of pretty faces rehashing pop music...that is if people get the chance to hear it. What was the last popular pop/rock song featuring heavy strings, Viva la Vida by Coldplay? _________________ I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away. |
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Joined: 05 Nov 2002 | Posts: 6826 | Location: Gilmer, Tejas
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Post subject: Re: hehehehehe, guess who's got a keyboard to work with now? Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:07 pm
wilsmith wrote: If you're aiming to make an inroads towards commercial success based on what's working for the rest of the musical world, are you so sure about your picks? All I can think is that some of you think an NPR/ College Radio audience or AOR audience might be apt to the mellower pop songs, cause they would fit right in. Thing is, all the artists who made some "noise" in that market are dormant or inconsequential right now. I don't see ANY of them on the charts. As far as the current charts are concerned, Regina Spektor and Sara Bareilles are one hit wonders, and the also rans - A Fine Frenzy, Brandy Carlisle, etc. are almost never beens. KT Tunstall gets off lucky as a 2 hit wonder. It's hard times out there. I'm not disparaging the above artists, but when I think of the songs being thrown up as choices for singles in place of the Valley it fits the vibe of that style. They are good songs, but releasing them just cause there's hope that they might catch on and be hits seems to be slightly out-of-touch with what constitutes the feel and sound of a hit song write about now. There are several artists in this genre that have continued to make waves on the indie scene. Joanna Newsom continues to get rave reviews and media coverage with every album released. Jenny Lewis gets attention every time she starts a new side project. Regina Spektor is at least still getting reviewed on Pitchfork. Laura Marling has had a steady string of successes and international tours since her debut a few years back. These are all artists that anyone with a minimal knowledge of indie music would recognize. They do well enough to keep selling out decent-sized venues, perform on late night shows, and make the occasional soundtrack album. Eisley has, unfortunately, fallen off the radar to a degree. Just by looking at Metacritic, you can see The Valley has a total of 8 reviews, while all of the other artists listed above all have at least 20 on their most recent releases. I know a lot of people here (myself included) probably roll their eyes at the snobbery of Pitchfork, but it really is the who's who of indie/alternative music. If Eisley really wants to break through, they're going to have to do something to appeal to that demographic. If they don't adjust, they'll probably just keep coasting in the same place they've been for the past few years, WHICH IS FINE. Honestly, I say stay true to yourself rather than (for lack of a better term) sell out. I do think Stacy's solo work has a fairly good shot at getting some more widespread attention. Here's to hoping. _________________ 
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Joined: 21 May 2005 | Posts: 5051 | Location: TX/NYC
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:21 am
I'm not saying the genre is dead, but just for the sake of argument: Joanna Newsom, I've seen her name in print, heard her on NPR, but the only people I know who are even aware of her in my pool of friends are hardcore music fans that explore music like they're moonlighting as journalists or professional artists themselves (most are). This same pool of folks are the ones who know about Laura Marling. Jenny Lewis and Regina Spektor have had more coverage, and the latter had a commercial breakthrough with Fidelity. I think Silver Lining should have went to the top of the charts personally, but that's beside the point. As much as I check out pitchfork for news, I don't use their reviews to gauge my taste cause it usually goes the opposite way. I check them out because they are more inclined to not cover or crap on most artists I do like, even ones they initially liked when they broke threw. Because of that, commercially, music journalism has become increasingly inconsequential. Consider that and the Payola busts in NYC. I have a hard time trusting any buzz anymore. It all seems fickle and manufactured, like a "cool" raffle, and every now and then a new artist wins so long they enough like a ping pong ball to roll their way to selection. I'm not resigned to Eisley or any band/ artist I like being a niche band only, or solely reliant on vanity imprints or pledgemusic/ kickstarter campaigns to release music. But I am asserting that coverage doesn't equal commerce. Gillian Welch was "buzzing" 13 years ago and hasn't really gotten any cross over coverage since, but there she is charting. She's got her audience, and just does her thing, takes her time doing it. Honestly, I come to the same conclusion you do, I want Eisley to be true to themselves and be happy making the music they make and believe in. So I'm taking the role of defensive fan on the video choice. I mean, consider that they liked the song enough to lead off the Pre-release EP with it, and then Name the Album For It. HINT HINT
I'm hopeful that any Eisley related project takes off, Stacy's, Christie's, or Perma (so far). But even if they don't, I can see them at least being viable endeavors, even if they get little to no coverage outside of their fanbases. Press helps fanbases grown, but fans help fanbases grow more, especially now, when fans are the primary generators of coverage, and have always been the primary source of revenue for touring musicians. Now if they want to open their own city to city courier business on tour for extra cash, that would be enterprising... Anyways I have yet to read an article on Plain Jane Automobile, MRNORTH, David Ryan Harris (at least in 13 years), or Ari Hest's latest projects, but they all were able to get them funded and released to fans and 3 of the 4 are touring them as we speak. Just consider that Eisley doesn't have to worry about breaking big ever again, that they can generate enough revenue to live off of if they maintain their current base and streamline the revenue flow. What songs would you want them to get behind and explore artistically through Video etc? _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
Last edited by wilsmith on Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:43 am
wilsmith wrote: Honestly, I come to the same conclusion you do, I want Eisley to be true to themselves and be happy making the music they make and believe in. So I'm taking the role of defensive fan on the video choice. Exactly. Isn't that kind of the point of independant music? If 'making it big' was no. 1 on their priority list they would've stayed with Warner Bros. and went with their 'guidance'. Sure, they want to be successful (any band would) but they're not going to use cheap tricks top get there. The Valley is a good representation of Eisley. |
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011 | Posts: 67 |
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:33 am
Shadow Mouse wrote: Sure, they want to be successful (any band would) but they're not going to use cheap tricks top get there. |
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Joined: 04 May 2007 | Posts: 3862 |
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:24 pm
To completely turn this on it's head... Part of me actually considered this: Since the Valley was written under WB contract, what if THEY were the ones who wanted it to be on Fire Kites, the Title Track, and the next video as a final act of compliance with the terms of the contract? That's just how my brain works. Not only could I be wrong, I could be completely wrong, whole-hearted half-cocked and off base. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:40 pm
tahruh wrote: Shadow Mouse wrote: Sure, they want to be successful (any band would) but they're not going to use cheap tricks top get there. I'm not talking about Lady Gaga successful. I'm sure they wouldn't want that. However, I don't think they would mind some more exposure than they're currently getting. Maybe Death Cab For Cutie successful? Not chart-topping but a band that most people know about.
If you're talking about 'cheap tricks' I was referring to them using a song like Watch It Die for a single. I'm not saying it's a bad song but I don't think it's a fair representation of them as a band. Instead of making a more accessible song (translation: not orthodox Eisley) into a single, I would rather they have a more song more typical to their style. Using Watch It Die (or Taking Control! ) might lead people to believe that Eisley is something that they're not. Just my opinion.
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011 | Posts: 67 |
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:38 pm
Shadow Mouse wrote: tahruh wrote: Shadow Mouse wrote: Sure, they want to be successful (any band would) but they're not going to use cheap tricks top get there. I'm not talking about Lady Gaga successful. I'm sure they wouldn't want that. However, I don't think they would mind some more exposure than they're currently getting. Maybe Death Cab For Cutie successful? Not chart-topping but a band that most people know about.
If you're talking about 'cheap tricks' I was referring to them using a song like Watch It Die for a single. I'm not saying it's a bad song but I don't think it's a fair representation of them as a band. Instead of making a more accessible song (translation: not orthodox Eisley) into a single, I would rather they have a more song more typical to their style. Using Watch It Die (or Taking Control! ) might lead people to believe that Eisley is something that they're not. Just my opinion.And I don't think they're the "indie elitists" you think they are. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind being as famous as Coldplay, so long as it was on their own terms (i.e., not by wearing meat suits ).
Hopefully it does well for them. |
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Joined: 04 May 2007 | Posts: 3862 |
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:12 pm
sebas wrote: I think The Valley is the only Eisley song I've heard being played in a public area. It seems that something about it has made it stand out, which makes it a good candidate for a video.
...but I still wish they would use the EP version. I agree completely. I realize others have their personal favorites, but "The Valley" seems like the most logical choice for the next video to me. Hopefully, if it get noticed, others will follow as well. I've got to admit though, I also prefer the EP version from FIREKITE. I think it sounds much better than the LP mix... _________________ Dan and daughter, Samantha - We Love Eisley! |
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Joined: 26 Jan 2008 | Posts: 974 | Location: Maumee, OH (Toledo)
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:45 pm
the ep version is heavier too _________________ Oneironaut http://www.facebook.com/ChengBand |
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Joined: 06 Sep 2008 | Posts: 1156 | Location: Nashville
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:45 am
Yeah, I never listen to the album version of the song. Those cymbals or whatever just kill it. So overbearing. |
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Joined: 19 Aug 2007 | Posts: 1547 |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:26 am
tahruh wrote: And I don't think they're the "indie elitists" you think they are. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind being as famous as Coldplay, so long as it was on their own terms (i.e., not by wearing meat suits ).
I don't know, I could see them with Coldplay status. I never said they were indie elitists by the way, I just don't think it's right to market something misleading to reach a broader audience. But, hey, what do I know, I'm not a musician. |
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Joined: 10 Apr 2011 | Posts: 67 |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:09 pm
Shadow Mouse wrote: tahruh wrote: And I don't think they're the "indie elitists" you think they are. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind being as famous as Coldplay, so long as it was on their own terms (i.e., not by wearing meat suits ).
I don't know, I could see them with Coldplay status. I never said they were indie elitists by the way, I just don't think it's right to market something misleading to reach a broader audience. But, hey, what do I know, I'm not a musician. |
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Joined: 04 May 2007 | Posts: 3862 |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:36 am
You can honestly call most of the songs on the Valley if those songs are supposed to inform you of what the band sounded like on any of their previous efforts
Of all the songs, I could see Ambulance on Room Noises or an earlier release, cause emotionally and pacing wise, it evokes the original Telescope Eyes as a down-tempo broken-hearted powerhouse. I could see I Wish on Combinations, if only for the percussion work and breakdown, which to my ears make it and I Will Be There For You opposing reflections of a certain dynamic... Kind, pre-orchestration could have been on either, but the album version is just in it's own universe. It's the Hey There Delilah of the Valley, it's just an undeniable tune, that, if you did a video for it, wouldn't adequately prime a fan who heard that for everything Eisley does so well. You know, the Valley was supposed to re-introduce Eisley to the world, and the more I blab about it, the more I embrace that mentality. This is the same band, but different... So, I like almost all of the songs on the Valley, only one that bothers me, so any song is worthwhile. My beef is based on my love for the song The Valley and seeing it got pushed aside. All that said, Kind would be the song to release to try and "Break Big" with Eisley if you were trying to cash out, and not interested in their longevity and viability as a touring act, because it's a great song, but it sort of handicaps their ability to garner an audience that would be as receptive to some of their rockier material. It's on par with Daughters (J. Mayer), Ordinary People (J. Legend), The Scientist (Coldplay), or I Will Follow You Into the Dark (Death Cab). It's a Grammy-Award-Winning type song that has the potential to be bigger than the artist performing it. It is THAT SONG. But I think Licensing is in it's future, and will suit it better than a video for now. I think a studio quality stripped down version along the lines of that first live performance would be a good B-Side to make available for those purposes and promotion though... _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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