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How do you feel about eating meat?
Meh, meat is meat, I'll eat whatever.
51%
 51%  [ 15 ]
It bothers me but I don't really know what to do about it.
17%
 17%  [ 5 ]
I only eat grass fed, free range meat and don't support the commerical meat industry
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
I don't eat any meat at all.
27%
 27%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 29

Author Message
olimario
Laughing Citizen


Like I said, whatever makes you people happy.

I say we were "designed" to eat meat because there are so many good sources of protein and and vitamins like B12 in meat that we don't get in any substantial or efficient way from fruits and vegetables.

Our evolutionary ancestors also ate red meat.

There's no case for humans as carnivores, but omnivores we most certainly are.
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mr pine
Vintage Newbie


sebas

i think you like to disagree with me just disagree.
but that's ok.
because we were basically saying the same thing.

i said we are veggitarians because we have a choice. obviously that means we eat because we have a choice. IN FACT I pointed out how I choose to not eat fish because I dont like it. But when faced with startving or eating fish, you best your ass i'd eat the fish. So it is clear that I understand our diets are a choice. no matter what side we choose.

and i didn't read your link (maybe later) but you can't tell me that the over abundance of cows in india is a good thing. no way. we control animal populations here through hunting seasons and such. because things get out of control.

so I am sure there are plenty of cows in india to be used the way they are using them, and still be food supply. it is not like every cow in india is being used by someone there. most are wild.


and let's be honest here, cows are pretty freaking tastey

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wilsmith
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Of the following choices which tastes preferable to the other, raw and unseasoned?

A.) Meat

B.) Vegetables

C.) Fruits

D.) Grains

E.) Nuts

I don't know about everyone else, but sans "cooking" I would probably be forced by my palette and constitution to only eat Fruit, a few vegetables, and certain nuts.

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DRMS_7888
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It's very easy to get to the proper nutrients as a vegetarian. My body is more healthy than it has ever been, and one of the keys is a well-balanced vegetarian diet.
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olimario
Laughing Citizen


i like a rare, unseasoned steak
but yeah, fruit is the obvious answer
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olimario
Laughing Citizen


DRMS_7888 wrote:
It's very easy to get to the proper nutrients as a vegetarian. My body is more healthy than it has ever been, and one of the keys is a well-balanced vegetarian diet.


This isn't true at all. If it was easy malnutrition wouldn't be a serious issue among vegans and vegetarians.

Of course everybody is different some vegetarians skate through life without any deficiencies, but a lot struggle with getting the appropriate amounts of B12.
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wilsmith
Vintage Newbie


olimario wrote:
i like a rare, unseasoned steak
but yeah, fruit is the obvious answer


rare ain't raw though. I'm talking fresh off the carcass Hyena style. But, I'll concede it's a lot closer than I'll ever consider eatin' any meat I come buy. I'd be one dead Inuit. Laughing

somebody cue up Shimmy Shimmy Ya!

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tahruh
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mr pine wrote:
hey tahruh i hear veggitarians have gas up the wazoo (no pun intended). is this true?

i think we have talked vegitarianism before on this board. and i stand by what i said back then. It is a product of abundance.
go to africa and tell them it is wrong to eat meat (not saying anyone on here is saying it is wrong, but you get my drift) when they don't eat for days on end.
there are literally millions starving in india, but there are cows there that they won't eat. tell me if they (and i understand it is there relgion) decided it was ok to eat them that it wouldn't help their cause?

so i am saying, we choose to be veggitarians, because we have that choice. we have abundance. i can say that I don't want to eat fish, because i dont like it,a nd i have plenty other foods to choose from. but if i had the choice of starving to death, or eating cod, i'd choose the cod.

Hey Pine, girls don't fart.

Just kidding, people (and animal-animals) fart all the time. The worst ones come from colons that have been abused by meat and processed foods. Eating a lot of green vegetables can counteract that, though!

And we always have bring up the third world, don't we? Africa has been all but destroyed by plundering white people, so let's leave them out of it for once.

As for India, not everyone there is religious, and those that are don't necessarily subscribe to Hinduism.

Second of all, much of the poverty in India exists due to western imperialism.

Thirdly, to those that do subscribe to this particular belief, the cow is seen as a lifelong provider, almost like a parent. To them, it is worth more alive than it is dead, and seemingly to anyone who actually gives it more than a passing thought.

Killing cows in India wouldn't solve hunger there or anywhere. It's roots can be found in the (industrial agricultural) system we subscribe to, which uses land to export expensive produce and makes everyone dependent upon them. Those that can't afford the product (like those whose land was taken from them) starve.

It's not about abundance so much as it is about greed, gluttony, and sloth-like behavior.


@Olimario
Did you read ANYTHING I said? Laughing

@Cendrillion
Ah, I see. I used to be very picky myself, but I was always into vegetables, so it was easier for me on that front.

One thing about iron is that there's actually quite a few plant sources. Spinach, beans, lentils, seeds, oatmeal/cereals, etc. It's not like you have to sit there eating one thing all day every day. My iron levels have always been fine, even though I don't pay any attention to them.

Re: soy, totally founded wariness. It's definitely best to consume in their unprocessed forms. From the studies I've read, I personally don't believe it has any major impact, but I would never to try persuade anyone else to believe that because I can't know for sure. However, I do want to note that meat contains estrogen, and overcooking it produces a chemical that is virtually synthetic.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/9018/title/Food_for_Thought __Troubling_Meaty_Estrogen

@Olimario again:
What? There are very few serious cases of malnutrition in the west, most due to abuse. One can definitely become malnourished as a vegetarian, but I think you'd be surprised how many obese meat eaters here are actually considered as such because all they eat is garbage. The American diet is far from nourishing. Plus, we haven't really covered everything that's found in meat today (hormones, antibiotics...radiation [ just a small amount, I'm sure it's fine!). Appetizing.
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Last edited by tahruh on Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mr pine
Vintage Newbie


olimario wrote:
i like a rare, unseasoned steak
but yeah, fruit is the obvious answer


obviously. you don't become the beast of a man you are by eating brocolli.

He once ate the Bible while water skiing

Did I ever tell you about the time olimario went hunting? Well anyway, he decides he's gonna hunt down all four members of the Banana Splits. He stalks and kills every one of them with a machete. They all beg for their lives, except Fleagul.

We once had a bachelor party for olimario. He ate the entire cake, before we could tell him there was a stripper in it.

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So anyway, olimario would put on a white tie and tails and walk his cobra through the park on a leash. He named the cobra Beverly, and he taught it how to fetch and dial a phone. But then one day it bit the maid. So with tears in his eyes, olimario had to shoot the maid.

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wilsmith
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/THREAD plus instant rimshot after each line of that roast up there^

*crying* Laughing
dude... Mcgruberesque...
you should apologize.

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olimario
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sebas
Golly, Poster


mr pine wrote:

but you can't tell me that the over abundance of cows in india is a good thing. no way.


Sure I can.

mr pine wrote:

so I am sure there are plenty of cows in india to be used the way they are using them, and still be food supply.


Nope.

mr pine wrote:

it is not like every cow in india is being used by someone there. most are wild.


Wrong again.

Some summarizations since you chose not to read the article:

"The prohibition against beef consumption is a form of disaster insurance for all India".

"In a study of livestock production in the United States, one scientist at Cornell University found that 91 percent of the cereal, legume, and vegetable protein suitable for human consumption is consumed by livestock. Approximately three quarters of the arable land in the United States is devoted to growing food for livestock. In the production of meat and milk, American ranchers use enough fossil fuel to equal more than 82 million barrels of oil annually.
Indian cattle do not drain the system in the same way. In a 1971 study of livestock in West Bengal, India, by a professor at the University of Missouri, found that Bengalese cattle ate only the inedible remains of subsistence crops - rice straw, rice hulls, the tops of sugar cane, and mustard-oil cake. Cattle graze in the fields after harvest and eat the remains of crops left on the ground; they forage for grass and weeds on the roadsides. The food for zebu cattle costs the human population virtually nothing. 'Basically the cattle convert items of little direct human value into products of immediate utility.'"

"In addition to plowing the fields and producing milk, the zebus produce dung, which fires the hearths and fertilizes the fields of India. Much of the estimated 800 million tons of manure produced annually is collected by the farmers' children as they follow the family cows and bullocks from place to place. And when the children see the droppings of another farmer's cattle along the road, they pick those up also. The system operates with such high efficiency that the children of West Bengal recover nearly 100 percent of the dung produced by their livestock."

"It is estimated that the dung used for cooking fuel provides the energy-equivalent of 43 million tons of coal. At current prices, it would cost India an extra 1.5 billion dollars in foreign exchange to replace the dung with coal. And if the 350 million tons of manure that are being used as fertilizer were replaced with commercial fertilizers, the expense would be even greater"

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freakinalex
Lost at Forum


Fun fact: Anything you eat has the potential to be dangerous. You could always choke on your food. Or you might potentially be allergic to that fruit you just ate. Also, any food item has the potential to be contaminated. And it's much more common that you would eat a raw vegetable that's been contaminated with something that could be killed by cooking it to the proper temperature than not cooking meat with that same bacteria. Cross-contamination is more common with meat, but it can still happen with veggies. Plus, if you eat too much fiber, which is heavily available in vegetables, you can get diarrhea, which can lead to dehydration. And also, drinking milk is bad for you, because even though it's full of calcium, it'll suck the iron right out of you. Some people are also born with deficiencies of certain enzymes that break down certain meats. That's much rarer with vegetables. But no human has the necessary enzymes to break down cellulose, which is a major component of a lot of veggies.

So yeah. Regardless of how I feel on the matter, it's kind of bugging me that every argument is one-sided thus far. Do what you want to do. Eat what you want to eat.

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wilsmith
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Good talk. Smile
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uncreative
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tahruh wrote:
olimario wrote:
Sprocket wrote:

Namely, that it is dangerously presumptive to eat meat or fish, since we don't know for certain how animals or fish feel or think and to what degree.



Would it make you feel better if I said we did know how they think and feel?
And that we, as a species, generally protect and don't eat more intelligent life like gorillas and dolphins?

Clearly we were designed to eat meat. No reason to avoid it because we've become efficient at hunting it.

But also, whatever makes you happy in life!
Pigs are more intelligent than 3 year old humans...

So you're saying we can eat babies? Wink

And I try to eat a balanced diet that includes meat and limits processed foods. When it comes to meat, I try to go with the better quality, organically and humanely fed/raised/killed, etc. But the key word is try. I'm not saying I don't eat a Twinkie now and then or go through a fast food drive thru late at night after the bars every once in a (long) while, but if you make a conscious effort every day to just think about all the food you're putting in your body and how it will affect it, short term and long term, you find it's pretty easy to have a good overall healthy diet. I generally boycott fast food (especially McDonald's, haven't eaten there since high school), and I also boycott Wal-Mart. Just choices I've made. I'm not gonna go join a cause or anything but I think making little choices in your life like that help improve the overall quality of it. I think those companies are bad for our world and for the people that consume their products (maybe not Wal-Mart if you're just buying cheap clothes and sh!t there, but they're still bad for our world). I also chose to stop drinking soda and before I eat something with a label I always check if it has trans fat, and if it does I won't eat it. But I don't ask every waiter/waitress if my food at a restaurant has it, or if I'm eating at someone's house I'm not gonna ask. So duh, I still consume a little, but far less than if I just ate whatever I felt like eating without thinking about the consequences. Ok, now I'm rambling... so yeah, meat, I'm a fan.

I think the whole point I was trying to make is, if everyone (but it has to be everyone!) just thought about what they ate and made a conscious effort to eat better, than we could still eat meat AND there would be more healthy people and less animal suffering. The companies that create low quality foods would start to lose business because people would choose healthier alternatives to their products, there would be more organic and ethical meat production and consumption, and the world would be a better place! Very Happy I know it's an impossible fantasy, but I guess I just operate as if it were real and hope it makes a difference, even though I know it won't. The most important thing, though, for EVERYONE, is that you make healthy choices for YOURSELF. You are more important than a chicken, or a cow, or a fish. Just sayin'.

Oh, and one last thought, in regards to tahruh's carnivore/herbivore/omnivore/human thing, most carnivores have those different mouth characteristics because they use their mouth to hunt, right? Well, maybe the reason humans don't have/need them is because we use our brains to create tools to hunt and our hands to use those tools? We're what you call... special.
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