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 Post subject: Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:48 pm 
lifeisforliving wrote: nothing's wrong with a bit of name-calling, we all do it, including bush. Well, while this may be true, it is a general rule & guideline of this forum to avoid name-calling. Patronizing other forum users isn't cool, either. Thankfully the thread seems to have mellowed a bit, but just a reminder to everyone: please keep things civil. We can have an intelligent discussion about the candidates without calling them names, or each other names, or patronizing each other, etc. _________________ "The revolution starts today, not tomorrow." :: got g-Love? |
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Joined: 02 Nov 2002 | Posts: 4224 | Location: Chicago, IL
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:58 pm
I'd vote for Kerry, but I don't think he looks like an American, he's a little too robotic for me; kinda reminds me of Gore. I'd vote for Bush, but he doesn't seem very smart. Politics is all about telling people what they want to hear during the election to get their votes, and about trying to make them forget what you said after the election is over. _________________ I am not who I say I am! |
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Joined: 28 Apr 2004 | Posts: 138 | Location: Wherever you want it to be.
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:19 pm
I have to run off to work now, so I'll just post one quick thing to dispell what I'm tired of hearing. And no, I'm not a fan of Kerry nor am I planning on voting for him. "Kerry's record on voting against defense" Well, apparently TEN of the THIRTEEN items on the RNC list that "Kerry has voted against", were all a part of ONE appropriations bill in 1991. Five Republicans also voted against this bill, and even Dick Cheney sported a similar position that "we have enough" of M-1 tank and the F-14 and F-16 fighters (on the same RNC list). Read more: http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kerry-military-votes.html Like I said, not a fan of John Kerry or planning on voting for him, but he deserves a fair shake and maybe some skepticism towards the political propaganda machine. _________________ "The revolution starts today, not tomorrow." :: got g-Love? |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:28 am
he's adamantly opposed to abortion, like i am. (what if a woman got pregnant because she was raped?) comparing bush to hitler seems to be something they like to do! (i was saying that hitler did what he thought was best for germany and the aryan (sp?) race, but that wasn't necessarily the right thing.) sought to control the media (isn't his brother head of fox or something) i'm done. muchlove. |
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003 | Posts: 102 | Location: London
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:58 am
robbie wrote: The republicans are talking about what they are going to do in the next four years, but I have to wonder why they haven't done those things in the past four years? Our economy is terrible, healthcare is awful (not the best in the world as Dick claimed), education is not nearly where it should be (I've never been so unable to afford it), and there is now more terrorism than ever beforein the world? Is that a job well done? i think this was (perhaps surprisingly) the most refreshing thing i've read on this thread. it's nice to read an impassioned, yet still salient, point of view, and not just some party's talking points being parroted. i think that the people who scream the loudest about media being biased are the first to be duped by it when it appeals to their sensibilities. _________________ hello. |
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Joined: 23 Aug 2003 | Posts: 5978 | Location: Austin, Texas
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:07 am
ali wrote: robbie wrote: The republicans are talking about what they are going to do in the next four years, but I have to wonder why they haven't done those things in the past four years? Our economy is terrible, healthcare is awful (not the best in the world as Dick claimed), education is not nearly where it should be (I've never been so unable to afford it), and there is now more terrorism than ever beforein the world? Is that a job well done? i think this was (perhaps surprisingly) the most refreshing thing i've read on this thread. it's nice to read an impassioned, yet still salient, point of view, and not just some party's talking points being parroted. i think that the people who scream the loudest about media being biased are the first to be duped by it when it appeals to their sensibilities. The economy is actually excellent on every level except job growth, the unemployment rate is lower than when clinton was in office, when he said it was the best economy ever. Healthcare here is a lot better than nations where everyone is covered, I'd much rather have good healthcare and actually be able to see a doctor and not have to wait 10 days, than settle for crappy healthcare for everyone. How much more funding on education do you want from the government, Bush gave tons with the No Child Left Behind act and he promised even more in his speech last night. Is it really the governments responsibility to send every single person to college, NO, we should all be lucky that we get any help at all. If you think there is more terrorism in the world now than there was before the war on terror started, I'll have to just bluntly say you're wrong. Has Kerry or Edwards been firing at Bush about promises he made in his last election run that he didn't keep, no, you know why, because he came through on what he said. Has Kerry talked about his 20 years in the Senate and the votes he cast, no, because it would hurt his chance for election. All we get from Mr. Kerry is 3 purple hearts, a lot of pessimism, and the ability to put me to sleep. _________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - WWW.MODICOMUSIC.COM www.myspace.com/modico "even on the drearest day a loving hand won't turn away God's greatest gift to man how sweet is love" http://www.myspace.com/ambientgecko - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Joined: 24 Dec 2003 | Posts: 1334 | Location: Fort Worth is my home... I'm at OU now though
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:20 am
Hmm, actually unemployment is actually quite high. Bush said that he'd create 5 million jobs and hasn't created a single one, he's lost about that many actually. Healthcare is not good... those who can actually get it are happy, but so many can't... so many children don't have healthcare (I personally haven't had healthcare since I was 10 years old). Do you want to go to the retirement village that I work at and tell the hundreds of residents that can no longer afford their already overpriced medication that we have the best healthcare in the world? Because I'm sure the words you speak will heal them much better than the actual medical attention would. Kerry actually does put down Bush's broken promises quite a bit. Just because he started a program doesn't mean it showed results. It seems like you are just regurgitating republican talking points here, what they say and what they actually do are two different things. Thanks, I'm glad to know that education is doing so well, I must have compeltely imagined that myself and everybody I know received less financial aid than ever this year, less loans, less chance for actual education. I should tell all of the teachers I know that showed up to school on the first day last year to be told to go home because there wasn't enough money to pay them that it wasn't really because they couldn't be paid, but because our education system is so good we just don't need them anymore? I don't know what you base the idea that terrorism hasn't gone up on, but I imagine that it's not the actual reports issued by our government that say otherwise. I keep finding it hilarious that the government agencies will issue reports about employment being down, or terrorism being on the rise... but politicians continue to say the exact opposite in their speeches... then even more amazing is that people believe that. Hilarious. |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:28 am
robbie wrote: Hmm, actually unemployment is actually quite high. Bush said that he'd create 5 million jobs and hasn't created a single one, he's lost about that many actually. Healthcare is not good... those who can actually get it are happy, but so many can't... so many children don't have healthcare (I personally haven't had healthcare since I was 10 years old). Do you want to go to the retirement village that I work at and tell the hundreds of residents that can no longer afford their already overpriced medication that we have the best healthcare in the world? Because I'm sure the words you speak will heal them much better than the actual medical attention would. Kerry actually does put down Bush's broken promises quite a bit. Just because he started a program doesn't mean it showed results. It seems like you are just regurgitating republican talking points here, what they say and what they actually do are two different things. Thanks, I'm glad to know that education is doing so well, I must have compeltely imagined that myself and everybody I know received less financial aid than ever this year, less loans, less chance for actual education. I should tell all of the teachers I know that showed up to school on the first day last year to be told to go home because there wasn't enough money to pay them that it wasn't really because they couldn't be paid, but because our education system is so good we just don't need them anymore? I don't know what you base the idea that terrorism hasn't gone up on, but I imagine that it's not the actual reports issued by our government that say otherwise. I keep finding it hilarious that the government agencies will issue reports about employment being down, or terrorism being on the rise... but politicians continue to say the exact opposite in their speeches... then even more amazing is that people believe that. Hilarious. wait a second- if bush has not "created a single job" why did the labor board report that there are 144,000 more jobs this month? there aren't any magic seeds that you can plant that will magically grow jobs. george bush never said there were. i personally am incredibly sick of these expectations of instant results. it just doesn't work that way, and it's not how it was promised. bush never said "i will create 5 million jobs from nothing in 3 days!" it just seems sort of silly to make such a huge blanket statement and say that george bush has not created a single job when, frankly, he has. i'm perfectly willing to admit that he has not lived up to all of his promises-but no politician has. you really think john kerry is going to do all the things he promises? well, maybe he can. but he's going to need money. and you know where that money will come from? your pocket. _________________ Saellys wrote: Thank God for Arielle  all your kind, they're coming clean they shut their eyes their mess, their scene |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:36 am
how is our economy terrible? just explain it to me how and why it is so bad. and we spend more money on education than on our defenses. _________________ If you wanna go on a picnic, I'll bring the watermelon. |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:42 am
amidthestars wrote: robbie wrote: Hmm, actually unemployment is actually quite high. Bush said that he'd create 5 million jobs and hasn't created a single one, he's lost about that many actually. Healthcare is not good... those who can actually get it are happy, but so many can't... so many children don't have healthcare (I personally haven't had healthcare since I was 10 years old). Do you want to go to the retirement village that I work at and tell the hundreds of residents that can no longer afford their already overpriced medication that we have the best healthcare in the world? Because I'm sure the words you speak will heal them much better than the actual medical attention would. Kerry actually does put down Bush's broken promises quite a bit. Just because he started a program doesn't mean it showed results. It seems like you are just regurgitating republican talking points here, what they say and what they actually do are two different things. Thanks, I'm glad to know that education is doing so well, I must have compeltely imagined that myself and everybody I know received less financial aid than ever this year, less loans, less chance for actual education. I should tell all of the teachers I know that showed up to school on the first day last year to be told to go home because there wasn't enough money to pay them that it wasn't really because they couldn't be paid, but because our education system is so good we just don't need them anymore? I don't know what you base the idea that terrorism hasn't gone up on, but I imagine that it's not the actual reports issued by our government that say otherwise. I keep finding it hilarious that the government agencies will issue reports about employment being down, or terrorism being on the rise... but politicians continue to say the exact opposite in their speeches... then even more amazing is that people believe that. Hilarious. wait a second- if bush has not "created a single job" why did the labor board report that there are 144,000 more jobs this month? there aren't any magic seeds that you can plant that will magically grow jobs. george bush never said there were. i personally am incredibly sick of these expectations of instant results. it just doesn't work that way, and it's not how it was promised. bush never said "i will create 5 million jobs from nothing in 3 days!" it just seems sort of silly to make such a huge blanket statement and say that george bush has not created a single job when, frankly, he has. i'm perfectly willing to admit that he has not lived up to all of his promises-but no politician has. you really think john kerry is going to do all the things he promises? well, maybe he can. but he's going to need money. and you know where that money will come from? your pocket. He did say that he would create 5 million jobs though, and has lost many. That is a failure on his promise... that's my point. Also that the idea that the economy is doing really well is a lie as well. There has been a recent (in certain industries) job increase in the past 3 months, but that is up from a particularly low down period. Yes, that money will come from my pockets, that's what taxes are there for. I would rather see my money used in a just and proper manner than wasted as it is now. No doubt that the last 4 years would have been a financially troubling time for any president, but Bush's administration handled it very poorly. From foreign relations to the economy to education Bush has proven to me over and over that he (and the people in his administration more importantly) are backpedaling (I believe the republicans call it something else), lying, and completely unable to run a nation. I doubt seriously that Kerry will deliver on EVERY promise, but no president ever has (it's not possible with such feverishly divided party lines). I have however seen Bush's administrations ability to handle the nations problems and I am not happy about it. I'm finding it very difficult to not become angry when I think about what my future kids will have to face if he continues to do what he has been doing for four more years. Kerry isn't my first choice as president, but he's a much better choice in my eyes than Bush. Kerry won't be an amazing president, but he will hopefully be able to fix some of the problems that Bush has created. |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:46 am
robbie wrote: amidthestars wrote: robbie wrote: Hmm, actually unemployment is actually quite high. Bush said that he'd create 5 million jobs and hasn't created a single one, he's lost about that many actually. Healthcare is not good... those who can actually get it are happy, but so many can't... so many children don't have healthcare (I personally haven't had healthcare since I was 10 years old). Do you want to go to the retirement village that I work at and tell the hundreds of residents that can no longer afford their already overpriced medication that we have the best healthcare in the world? Because I'm sure the words you speak will heal them much better than the actual medical attention would. Kerry actually does put down Bush's broken promises quite a bit. Just because he started a program doesn't mean it showed results. It seems like you are just regurgitating republican talking points here, what they say and what they actually do are two different things. Thanks, I'm glad to know that education is doing so well, I must have compeltely imagined that myself and everybody I know received less financial aid than ever this year, less loans, less chance for actual education. I should tell all of the teachers I know that showed up to school on the first day last year to be told to go home because there wasn't enough money to pay them that it wasn't really because they couldn't be paid, but because our education system is so good we just don't need them anymore? I don't know what you base the idea that terrorism hasn't gone up on, but I imagine that it's not the actual reports issued by our government that say otherwise. I keep finding it hilarious that the government agencies will issue reports about employment being down, or terrorism being on the rise... but politicians continue to say the exact opposite in their speeches... then even more amazing is that people believe that. Hilarious. wait a second- if bush has not "created a single job" why did the labor board report that there are 144,000 more jobs this month? there aren't any magic seeds that you can plant that will magically grow jobs. george bush never said there were. i personally am incredibly sick of these expectations of instant results. it just doesn't work that way, and it's not how it was promised. bush never said "i will create 5 million jobs from nothing in 3 days!" it just seems sort of silly to make such a huge blanket statement and say that george bush has not created a single job when, frankly, he has. i'm perfectly willing to admit that he has not lived up to all of his promises-but no politician has. you really think john kerry is going to do all the things he promises? well, maybe he can. but he's going to need money. and you know where that money will come from? your pocket. He did say that he would create 5 million jobs though, and has lost many. That is a failure on his promise... that's my point. Also that the idea that the economy is doing really well is a lie as well. There has been a recent (in certain industries) job increase in the past 3 months, but that is up from a particularly low down period. Yes, that money will come from my pockets, that's what taxes are there for. I would rather see my money used in a just and proper manner than wasted as it is now. No doubt that the last 4 years would have been a financially troubling time for any president, but Bush's administration handled it very poorly. From foreign relations to the economy to education Bush has proven to me over and over that he (and the people in his administration more importantly) are backpedaling (I believe the republicans call it something else), lying, and completely unable to run a nation. I doubt seriously that Kerry will deliver on EVERY promise, but no president ever has (it's not possible with such feverishly divided party lines). I have however seen Bush's administrations ability to handle the nations problems and I am not happy about it. I'm finding it very difficult to not become angry when I think about what my future kids will have to face if he continues to do what he has been doing for four more years. Kerry isn't my first choice as president, but he's a much better choice in my eyes than Bush. Kerry won't be an amazing president, but he will hopefully be able to fix some of the problems that Bush has created. i honestly respect your opinions and your tenacity, but i just can't understand this... obviously this administration has made mistakes, but i have not noticed the glaring ones you point out. i honestly don't get it. i'm a thinking person, and i certainly don't endorse a candidate just because he's a republican... i just go with the person who i feel can lead the country and has views that are like mine. i suppose that's the trouble. i'm sure you and i have very different views on most political issues. but i don't want to argue with you or make you hate me. i'm just trying to alert you to the fact that if you use exaggeration to make a point about our current president, it's not going to matter. what should matter is the truth. that said, i sort of understand why you have issues with george bush, but i just don't get how you see him to have mishandled everything so badly. _________________ Saellys wrote: Thank God for Arielle all your kind, they're coming clean they shut their eyes their mess, their scene |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:51 am
kerry/edwards plan for winning the presidency seems to revolve around a few central themes. -My patriotism is being attacked by the evil Republicans (it isn't, and never has been) -They didn't serve in Vietnam, I did (So what...neither did Bill Clinton, and his opponents in '92 and '96 were both war heroes) -President Bush misled the nation on Iraq (nonesence, didn't we just learn that two government reports have now exonerated President Bush on intelligence used as the basis to invade Iraq. There was no misleading. You can only mislead someone if you know to be untrue what you are telling them. ) -Don't bring up my Senate voting record. This is all about my Vietnam service record. Any mention of my Senate voting record is an attack on my patriotism. without looking at his website, how many people can tell me what sort pf policies kerry plans on implementing? I for the life of me can't think of any....cause kerry doesn't talk about them. he sure does talk about vietnam though. _________________ If you wanna go on a picnic, I'll bring the watermelon. |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:54 am
Where's the Nader option? |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:40 am
Presidents Don't Make JOBS! _________________ "The revolution starts today, not tomorrow." :: got g-Love? |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 11:53 am
i usually stay quiet on these issues and i'll tell you why soon. manchilds wrote: kerry/edwards plan for winning the presidency seems to revolve around a few central themes.
-My patriotism is being attacked by the evil Republicans (it isn't, and never has been) -They didn't serve in Vietnam, I did (So what...neither did Bill Clinton, and his opponents in '92 and '96 were both war heroes) -President Bush misled the nation on Iraq (nonesence, didn't we just learn that two government reports have now exonerated President Bush on intelligence used as the basis to invade Iraq. There was no misleading. You can only mislead someone if you know to be untrue what you are telling them. ) -Don't bring up my Senate voting record. This is all about my Vietnam service record. Any mention of my Senate voting record is an attack on my patriotism. every politician i've seen in my life bases a lot of their public campaign on similar issues. i don't agree with it. i'd rather hear them talk about the issues just like you would. gw does just about the same thing. manchilds wrote: without looking at his website, how many people can tell me what sort pf policies kerry plans on implementing? I for the life of me can't think of any....cause kerry doesn't talk about them. he sure does talk about vietnam though. i know that he's going to form our alliances with all the countries we were friends with 4 years ago. i know that i have a better chance of not being drafted with him as president. i know that he wants to try and free our dependence on the oil in the middle east by investing in alternative energy sources. i know that he wants to fix all the environmental problems that bush screwed up. i know he wants to fix health care by lowering the premiums for families, and of course make it more accessable to 90%+ of americans. our health care sucks right now btw. i know he wants to pay our teachers more. this impacts my family since my mom gets paid crap as a teacher even though she has masters plus 30 (if you know how the teacher pay scale works) that's a lot of school she went to you know. i know that he's going to make my college tuition less by offering thousands in tax refunds to families with college students. i know that he's going to do the exact oppisite of bush's tax plan and offer the tax cuts to the poor. the taxes right now are ridiculous. he's also going to cut off all those off shore tax holes that all big business's use to save money while smaller business that are the center and foundation of america lose out making up for the money those bastards save one thing i like about bush, really the only thing is his determination to eliminate the terrorists in the world. what he is doing is right. but i will get that and all of the above with john kerry. and we will do it with the help of the UN and our former allies. and those my friends are off the top of my head. you see i listen to the important things that the canidates say. i'd like to say too that my dad lost his job because of ol gw and he had to swallow his pride and work at cvs. a pharmacy/convieniance store where both his sons worked. do you know how much that must have hurt him? now i am going to be struggling to pay off my college dues becuase the finacial aid papers i filled out took in regard his earnings when he did have his good, high paying job. the one he got under clinton, who was a damn good president. and because of all this, i'll admit that i am extremely biased in this election. i hate our president. that's why i usually stay quiet. that's why i want all of you to not to base your stance on me but to go and find out about john kerry yourself. manchilds and everyone else is right we don't get the full story on kerry because of all this bs on vietnam and such. go to campaign sites and find out the truth for yourself. i know too that we might not get all these promises. it's tough to pass a bill in congress that induce major changes. if you listen to john kerry speak about these issues he'll tell you that he's going to fight for these things. that's a smart man right there. *braces for the coming arguments* |
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