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 Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:10 am 
I bought 2 copies. Not even sure why. I guess at some point I'll give one away. My wife already makes fun of me for my being an Eisley fan (why do you listen to this band that nobody has even heard of?). Of course the babysitter backs me up. Generational thing, I guess. A band doesn't have to be played on the radio to be better than most of the bands that are on the radio. But I'm dragging my wife off to another Eisley (Mutemath) concert in October (hopefully, if we can get a babysitter). She makes me see lame 80s acts like Richard Marx. So as I put up with that, she goes along with me. |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005 | Posts: 7525 | Location: Wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:11 am
There are just too many fingers in the pie mulling away the $ before the band ever sees a piece. And it's the label that's determining the slice sizes. Is it fair? not really, but they'll be the first to tell you it's their bottom line putting up the risk. At the same time, they're making it difficult on the bands because if the band could save money on XYZ and the label says they want ABC for more $ then the band really has little to say about it if they want their album released. It sickens me to see the artists screwed this way. I think if more bands stayed indie and hired their own lawyers, pr companies, etc..the better off the industry would be. But alas it's the heavy duty media companies that own the media and unless you can navigate through all that, you're likely to stay unknown. Thank God for the internet. It's at least giving indies a chance to compete with the majors these days. The pirating of music does hurt bands. There's no doubt. But on the same token, if a band can make a living touring...they'll never need a label for support. I believe Eisley is setting themselves up nicely to do well on their own and one day I think they'll see the rewards of their labor ($). It sadens me slightly to see bands like Eisley having to struggle the way they do. But at least they get to do things most people never will have the opportunity to do. Kimbrtones wrote: For anyone to pretend that pirating a band's cd does not hurt the band, is deceiving themself. It does take away from that band...at least for now.
I know there are all these changes and that no one knows the future, but for now...cd sales only help a band like Eisley. Of course Prince can give his away! 
But, for bands like Eisley, if you can afford to buy they cd, you should. Sales = future continued success. Everyone thinks that Eisley is rich and that they are rollin. Guess what? My kid's have seen very little return in dollars. Everything has been one big risk...for us, as well as for WB. It's the way it's played if it flies...everyone wins the lottery...if it doesn't...eventually it all comes to an end. The only money Eisley has received are a few royalty checks. We all try to laugh when an ASCAP check arrives and we open them, and it will be for $89.00. The funniest one was for $4.00. This time is critical for a band like Eisley. If you want to see them continue...buy their freakin album for 10 bucks. I buy a copy everytime I go into a store that carries it. I keep that copy in my car or purse, and give it away to someone that has never heard the band, or I think would not go out and buy the album. The whole arguement and justifications of pirating are silly. "Pirating" look up a definition. " a person who uses or reproduces the work or invention of another without authorization." I hear all the arguements of how it's suppose to "help" the band, but Eisley had 80 thousand pirated copies recorded for Room Noises. Thanks for the help pirates! I don't know what the solution is, and I myself have been guilty of "pirating" songs...but...I knew/know that it is wrong and it does not "help" the band. One of the problems is, it's too easy and available to do without consequence. blah...that's my two cents...you guys are way smarter than me. Having said all of that gibberish...if you can buy the cd, please do, and buy one just to give away. Doing so, you will be helping to ensure that the band you love, EISLEY will be able to continue....And, maybe...just maybe these kids will start seeing a paycheck from their years of work!  _________________ http://www.myspace.com/keithabbott |
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006 | Posts: 267 | Location: Fairfax, VA
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 am
I don't know anyone who thinks Eisley is rollin. In a way, that they are not is why the loyalty is so fierce. This is a great band, it really is. There is all sorts of dreck that becomes "popular" out there, and so when you run into something that is actually good, you want to shake the world by the neck and say "look at this!!". The issue of getting the music for free transcends that notion. You say WB is making a big risk. This is completely, 100% false. Whatever advance the label made was money they had in their sofa cushions. There are a billion bands like Eisley that a label like WB has thrown deals at. The winners pay for the ones they have to toss aside. Really, it's a heartless enterprise. I'm not blaming the label. You have capital, this is how you use it. The notion of giving away the music is to take some control of the process, and to just get Eisley heard. After all, the CDs will be a pittance of the balance sheet, compared with residuals and shows and merchandise. The label works for Eisley, not the other way around, and it's on the band to make sure the label gives the album the right promotion and to pick the right single ("Invasion", probably the worst song on the album -- not it -- not when a burgeoning classic like "Taking Control" is the next song). _________________ I was young and foolish then, but old and foolish now |
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Joined: 20 Aug 2007 | Posts: 4 |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:22 am
Just for clarification in case this was intended as a response to my post.. I wouldn't say WB is making a big risk. They would though. That would be their auto-generated email. I don't believe that for a second due to the deals and investments they've made. So I totally agree with you in this respect. I wouldn't necessarily agree though that the label works for the band. The band is essentially having to recoup monies that the label has already shelled out. That makes them more of an employee than anything else. They will have some say so over what they do and don't do, but they still will be pushed to do one thing or another, especially when it comes to recording. If the label doesn't like it..the band will have to re-record it, re-write it..at an additional expense. That's more money the band has to recoup. Hanson is actually a great example of a band at odds with their former label. In fact, they have a whole documentary on just that subject. rainier_wolfcastle wrote: You say WB is making a big risk. This is completely, 100% false. Whatever advance the label made was money they had in their sofa cushions. There are a billion bands like Eisley that a label like WB has thrown deals at. The winners pay for the ones they have to toss aside. Really, it's a heartless enterprise. I'm not blaming the label. You have capital, this is how you use it. The notion of giving away the music is to take some control of the process, and to just get Eisley heard. After all, the CDs will be a pittance of the balance sheet, compared with residuals and shows and merchandise. The label works for Eisley, not the other way around, and it's on the band to make sure the label gives the album the right promotion and to pick the right single ("Invasion", probably the worst song on the album -- not it -- not when a burgeoning classic like "Taking Control" is the next song) _________________ http://www.myspace.com/keithabbott |
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006 | Posts: 267 | Location: Fairfax, VA
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:24 am
Kimbrtones wrote: For anyone to pretend that pirating a band's cd does not hurt the band, is deceiving themself. It does take away from that band...at least for now.
I know there are all these changes and that no one knows the future, but for now...cd sales only help a band like Eisley. Of course Prince can give his away! If pirating a band's album hurts the band, no one can afford to give away an album for free, not even Prince. He didn't put a CD in the newspaper because he can go without getting paid for it. From what I can discern it was more of a statement than anything, that musicians should be looking for alternate ways to distribute their music that doesn't involve a corporation. And that's an attitude with which I wholeheartedly agree. Kimbrtones wrote: But, for bands like Eisley, if you can afford to buy they cd, you should.
Sales = future continued success. Everyone thinks that Eisley is rich and that they are rollin. I can't imagine how anyone here would get the idea that Eisley are rich, unless they're severely deluded about the music industry as a whole. Kimbrtones wrote: Guess what? My kid's have seen very little return in dollars. Everything has been one big risk...for us, as well as for WB. It's the way it's played... if it flies...everyone wins the lottery...if it doesn't...eventually it all comes to an end.
The only money Eisley has received are a few royalty checks. Yeah...that's right...a few royalty checks. They have been working at this thing since 1998 for little or no pay. We all try to laugh when an ASCAP check arrives and we open them, and it will be for $89.00. There have been a few that were for more than that, but not many. The funniest one was for $4.00. This time is critical for a band like Eisley. If you want to see them continue...buy their freakin album for 10 bucks! Buy more than one copy! (if it is financially possible for you.) With all due respect, if I have a choice between buying extra copies of Combinations to convert people and using burned copies of the Independent Recordings EP, I'd use the free one. Of course, it's also not financially possible for me to buy everyone I want to convert a copy of the CD. But when the tools (Myspace, the Independent Recordings) are out there for free, I honestly can't envision a lot of people using the tools that cost money, particularly when so many stores charge obscene amounts for CDs and many Eisley fans don't live near a Best Buy or something comparable. Kimbrtones wrote: I buy a copy everytime I go into a store that carries it. I keep that copy in my car or purse, and give it away to someone that has never heard the band, or I think would not go out and buy the album. Burning that person a copy and hoping that it turns into future sales for the band is not reality.
Buying an extra copy and giving it away, hoping it will turn that person into a fan that will go to shows, and buy merch...that's a better bet...and that extra cd sell...did help the band. Why is that a better bet? Burning a copy obviously worked on the person mentioned in the first post of this thread. Kimbrtones wrote: Of course I do this...I'm their mom...I want to see their dream fullfilled of being able to make a living at what they do so well, and what they love,and what they, and all of us in this family have worked hard, and sacrificed much since 1998.
I also want to see them fly out of the nest...and they cannot do that in their current state...well, the girls can...if they marry a guy that can help support them. I definitely understand where you're coming from, and please know I'm not trying to attack you or your kids by my response. I totally admire you and Boyd being 100% behind the band. Kimbrtones wrote: The whole arguement and justifications of pirating are silly. "Pirating" look up a definition. " a person who uses or reproduces the work or invention of another without authorization."
I hear all the arguements of how it's suppose to "help" the band, but Eisley had 80 thousand pirated copies recorded for Room Noises. Thanks for yer help mateys! arrrgh! I don't know what the solution is, and I myself have been guilty of "pirating" songs...but...I knew/know that it is wrong and it does not "help" the band. One of the problems is, it's too easy and available to do without consequence. Do you mean there were 80,000 downloaded copies of Room Noises? If so, I have to wonder where that statistic came from. I'm not aware of any way for the record industry to track exactly how many copies of anything are downloaded, especially when there are so many BitTorrent sites and P2P networks and the like. I'm not saying the number seems low or high, just suspect in general by virtue of the fact that it would be incredibly difficult to figure out how many copies were downloaded. I dunno. In any event, that's 80,000 people that, in all likelihood, would never have heard anything Eisley did had they not downloaded it. I'm not saying they did the right thing by pirating the album at all, but if even 10% of those people went out and saw Eisley life, or bought a t-shirt, that's quite a number of people who weren't fans before. While I defend pirating for that reason, and I give my own music out for free because I really do believe that it's the best possible way to reach people, I would abandon it in a heartbeat if the record industry could come up with any way to bring in those kinds of numbers. So far they haven't even tried. But anyway. _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003 | Posts: 14510 | Location: Alone on an airplane, fallin' asleep against the windowpane...
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:48 am
Saellys wrote: Why is that a better bet? Burning a copy obviously worked on the person mentioned in the first post of this thread. It's a clear better bet for the band. CD sale + merch sales > No CD sale + merch sales. If helping the band is the ultimate goal, that is a clear better option. It's not always viable, but it is a clear best bet. _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003 | Posts: 25184 | Location: East Texas
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:10 am
rainier_wolfcastle wrote: You say WB is making a big risk. This is completely, 100% false. Whatever advance the label made was money they had in their sofa cushions. There are a billion bands like Eisley that a label like WB has thrown deals at. The winners pay for the ones they have to toss aside. Really, it's a heartless enterprise. Actually, it is a risk. The money they use is "borrowed" from stockholders in most cases. Individual Employees and owners may be rich, but especially now, Record Labels are not. They are scraping to survive. There are a billion bands like Eisley? Where? Warner AND the band AND their support (family) have made a big risk. I'd imagine minimizing that is hurtful to them. |
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Joined: 31 May 2004 | Posts: 2018 | Location: Sacramento, CA
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:36 pm
Obviously there are not a million bands like Eisley. But to think that all of WB's eggs are in Eisley's basket is flat silly. For the label, Eisley is another seed that might grow into a lovely, cash-bearing plant. The label has several other seeds planted. Ultimately most of these tiny investments will flame out, and a couple will turn into big winners, certainly big enough to cover the cost of the flame-outs. The label can walk away from this. The family are the ones taking the plunge. I have trouble thinking WB, one of the biggest media conglomerates and brands in the world, will lose sleep over the advance is the Eisley experiment doesn't pan out. When Prince put his CD in the newspaper, he did get paid for it -- probably more than he would have from putting the CD in stores. That was the whole point. The music is so easy to obtain legally or illegally that there is really no cache involved in getting music anymore. The value-add lies in getting it before anyone else does. I don't demean the family's sacrifice here. I care intensely, because they made a terrific album that needs to get out there, because it is so good. If people heard it, they would be hooked. But when the label is telling you to put the wrong single out first, or if the label does not provide the backing or interest in the band or the project, you really have to ask some questions. [/quote] _________________ I was young and foolish then, but old and foolish now |
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Joined: 20 Aug 2007 | Posts: 4 |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:43 pm
rainier_wolfcastle wrote: Obviously there are not a million bands like Eisley. But to think that all of WB's eggs are in Eisley's basket is flat silly. For the label, Eisley is another seed that might grow into a lovely, cash-bearing plant. The label has several other seeds planted. Ultimately most of these tiny investments will flame out, and a couple will turn into big winners, certainly big enough to cover the cost of the flame-outs. The label can walk away from this. The family are the ones taking the plunge. I have trouble thinking WB, one of the biggest media conglomerates and brands in the world, will lose sleep over the advance is the Eisley experiment doesn't pan out.
When Prince put his CD in the newspaper, he did get paid for it -- probably more than he would have from putting the CD in stores. That was the whole point. The music is so easy to obtain legally or illegally that there is really no cache involved in getting music anymore. The value-add lies in getting it before anyone else does. I don't demean the family's sacrifice here. I care intensely, because they made a terrific album that needs to get out there, because it is so good. If people heard it, they would be hooked. But when the label is telling you to put the wrong single out first, or if the label does not provide the backing or interest in the band or the project, you really have to ask some questions. I think the band was on board with Invasion being the first single. Seems so, anyway. And they are going to be on Conan (sure the label had a lot to do with that), touring with Mute Math (sure the label helped with that). Touring in the UK again (thanks, WB). Sure, the label could do more, but as promotion will no doubt all need to be recouped, it seems they are doing okay. A little more promotion at record stores would be nice. But the street team materials will hopefully help with that some. |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005 | Posts: 7525 | Location: Wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:45 pm
interesting read, and i dont have anything to add except no one wants to work pro bono,i would be dis heartened if my work was beiong ripped off , eisley ,ive watched this band for a few years now and i think they have paid some dues , can you imagine living in a van pulling a big trailer going from town to town loading unloading, being on when youre dead tired , hard work they have worked very hard in my opinion , i wouldnt want to live in a van all the time... the pirate issue/ id much rather have the real cd especially when you have someone like sherri whio is gifted also as an artist,,well i really dont have much to say i see all points of view , i have been a little privleged to see this band develop from a marginal inside view and i know it doesnt come easy |
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003 | Posts: 1467 | Location: memphis tn
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:18 pm
rainier_wolfcastle wrote: it's on the band to make sure the label gives the album the right promotion and to pick the right single ("Invasion", probably the worst song on the album -- not it -- not when a burgeoning classic like "Taking Control" is the next song). Well, obviously choosing the right single isn't that black and white. I think Invasion is a great choice for a single because it seems the most accessible to radio listeners. Not only that, but I think it's a great song and easily not the worst on the album. _________________ "If you're a ninja, every day is like friday." -Jamie M. |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2003 | Posts: 2857 | Location: Lake Jackson, TX
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:27 pm
cynlovescandy wrote: rainier_wolfcastle wrote: You say WB is making a big risk. This is completely, 100% false. Whatever advance the label made was money they had in their sofa cushions. There are a billion bands like Eisley that a label like WB has thrown deals at. The winners pay for the ones they have to toss aside. Really, it's a heartless enterprise. Actually, it is a risk. The money they use is "borrowed" from stockholders in most cases. Individual Employees and owners may be rich, but especially now, Record Labels are not. They are scraping to survive. There are a billion bands like Eisley? Where? Warner AND the band AND their support (family) have made a big risk. I'd imagine minimizing that is hurtful to them. This is really ignorant. You make it sound like WB is full of little orphans giving their last dimes to support the amazing Eisley, and they Eisley's going to make everyone live happily ever after. Trust me, if the corporation didn't have the money to throw around for Eisley, they wouldn't be doing it. If they don't get the sales they want they will THROW this band away and make sure they spend their whole lives recouping the cost of these two records and Eisley will ALWAYS have to consult WB if they want to do anything with these tracks because they wont own the masters and the whole thing will be a big mess. They make money off their "cash cows" and spend a little on new projects and the rest paying big time executives. This is from the article posted a few pages back: "What is so truly disturbing here is that it speaks volumes about the value system of an owner of a company that would pay its top-five Record Executives more than three times the amount of operating income for a ten-month period while dismissing 1,600 employees. What the article failed to mention was that in addition to the employee layoffs, Warner Music Group also dropped 93 of the 193 artists signed to Warner Labels in the US, approximately 47% of the artist roster during this same period." Just like that! Get rid of half the roster so we can pay all these generous executives millions of dollars while the bands starve. No Biggie. 
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005 | Posts: 260 |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:15 pm
I haven't read the entirety of this post, it's 10 pages long, but I did read the gist of it. Bands are so naive if they think that they will receive money for their records. They wont. Record companies will change the books, and never tell the band of how much they still owe the company, happily taking all CD sales money. A band WILL make their bread and butter from copyright, which will be paid every single year. A band will make extra money from gigs (although they will earn less than the sound engineers!) and from merchandise. Also, the person above me said "[Eisley will] consult WB if they want to do anything with these tracks because they wont own the masters and the whole thing will be a big mess." Yes, WB own the master tracks for 50 years, BUT Eisley will always, always, always own the copyright. This therefore means that every single copy that is produced (as this is a copy of the master, this is not selling the master) WB will have to pay Copyright and therefore Eisley. Even if the company do not sell all these copies they will still have to pay for each produced. However, we all know how record companies tell the truth! A tutor of mine once found their record company had leaked the album before it was out to Iran because there is no copyright law! Also, someone said something about it would be better if bands employed their own publishing, recording, marketing, manufacturing and management. However, did you know, that according to UK law, if you require to take out a loan from a bank to pay for all of this, then the tracks are not yours. They belong to bank as they paid for them. By being part of a record company, as sleazy and morally wrong they are, this gives a band the opportunity to get out a loan for their endeavors. AND did you know that if you bought the album of itunes the band make even less money? _________________ "Speaking as a rational person, Al Qaeda are a loose assosiciation of terrorists who can be rounded up with sustained police investigation. Speaking as a parent, they're all 8ft tall, with a giant eye in the middle of their forehead and the only way to stop them is to nuke every country that hasn't sent us a Chritmas card in the past 10 years." www.myspace.com/townsendband Go there, or be... a... triangle.... |
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Joined: 22 May 2006 | Posts: 151 | Location: Blazingstoke, UK
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:50 am
i think invasion is a great single, and if my memory serves me that was the song that got a lot of buzz here during the spring tour with simon dawes |
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003 | Posts: 1467 | Location: memphis tn
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:16 am
"Invasion" is a nice song. It is an okay Eisley song. "Go Away" is a better Eisley song. "Taking Control" transcends Eisley songs. The lyrics, the hook, and the rhythm are so good, that its baffling why WB (or anyone else) would have picked any other song, or even listened to any other one. I've heard the album seven or eight times now, and if there is a song to arrive, it's that one. The right combination of music and attitude, something that Nirvana or The Clash would have been proud to call its own. I'm not hyperbolizing -- it could be that good and important -- if folks weren't on the Invasion sci-fi train. _________________ I was young and foolish then, but old and foolish now |
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Joined: 20 Aug 2007 | Posts: 4 |
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Laughing City Forum Index -> eisleyBlog -> bootleg copy.
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