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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:49 pm 
Nice read there. Cubs fell to 1-3 today. Almost came back, but fell 1 run short to Houston. Hopefully I'll get to watch some of the game tomorrow (it wasn't on WGN television today, so I had WGN radio on). |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005 | Posts: 7525 | Location: Wisconsin
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:53 pm
Fortunately for any team with a bad start, the first 10 games -- and indeed the first half of the season -- are almost pointless in most cases. Thank you, wild card. 
(And I know the Yankees wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without it, but they probably would have won a lot more championships if not for hot, flash-in-the-pan WC teams, too.) _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:21 pm
TheAntrider wrote: Fortunately for any team with a bad start, the first 10 games -- and indeed the first half of the season -- are almost pointless in most cases. Thank you, wild card.
(And I know the Yankees wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without it, but they probably would have won a lot more championships if not for hot, flash-in-the-pan WC teams, too.) 2004 is a long time ago. Let it go! 
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:30 pm
CUBSWINWORLDSERIES wrote: TheAntrider wrote: Fortunately for any team with a bad start, the first 10 games -- and indeed the first half of the season -- are almost pointless in most cases. Thank you, wild card.
(And I know the Yankees wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without it, but they probably would have won a lot more championships if not for hot, flash-in-the-pan WC teams, too.) 2004 is a long time ago. Let it go! Ha, I don't really care about that very much. The 2004 Yankees were outclassed with almost no pitching and should have been swept in the first place. But I disdain the wild card. It has done little but make teams who take the first half of the season off into champions over teams who do things right (generally). _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:36 pm
TheAntrider wrote: CUBSWINWORLDSERIES wrote: TheAntrider wrote: Fortunately for any team with a bad start, the first 10 games -- and indeed the first half of the season -- are almost pointless in most cases. Thank you, wild card.
(And I know the Yankees wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without it, but they probably would have won a lot more championships if not for hot, flash-in-the-pan WC teams, too.) 2004 is a long time ago. Let it go! Ha, I don't really care about that very much. The 2004 Yankees were outclassed with almost no pitching and should have been swept in the first place. But I disdain the wild card. It has done little but make teams who take the first half of the season off into champions over teams who do things right (generally). 2003 Marlins come to mind (of course I am biased there). But I generally think the Wild Card is good for the game, good for ticket sales of teams eliminated from their divisions but still within reach of the wild card. I think the bigger question is DH or no DH. |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:39 pm
I would like the wild card a lot more if they actually punished it. I think maybe a 3-game playoff to determine the winner would be good. I am a huge fan of the DH, unless you want to inflate pitching stats. I think it's silly to have one guy come up every few innings who I could hit better than. _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:00 pm
TheAntrider wrote: I would like the wild card a lot more if they actually punished it. I think maybe a 3-game playoff to determine the winner would be good.
I am a huge fan of the DH, unless you want to inflate pitching stats. I think it's silly to have one guy come up every few innings who I could hit better than. Carlos Zambrano is a career .218 hitter with 12 home runs. Carlos Marmol, career .207 with 1 HR in 29 at bats. Kerry Wood has 7 career home runs in 345 career at bats. Jason Marquis a career .207 hitter. I dare say I doubt you could hit over the Mendoza line. It is an important part of the game, and the NL games are a lot more strategic in nature as a result of having pitchers hit. |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:31 pm
Well, there are pitchers who hit well (Dontrelle Willis), but the majority look like they are not even sure how to hold a bat. I'd much prefer strategy involving things more than "Ok, this guy can lay down a bunt 1 out of 100 times, how do we get someone across?" Also, we're still talking about career .200 hitters with one homer. It's better than me, but still pretty awful. But anyway, that's why there's the NL. ha ha _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:46 pm
TheAntrider wrote: Well, there are pitchers who hit well (Dontrelle Willis), but the majority look like they are not even sure how to hold a bat. I'd much prefer strategy involving things more than "Ok, this guy can lay down a bunt 1 out of 100 times, how do we get someone across?"
Also, we're still talking about career .200 hitters with one homer. It's better than me, but still pretty awful. But anyway, that's why there's the NL. ha ha My Carlos Marmol example was a bad one, but you did notice that his 1 HR was in 29 career at bats. He has not been in the league very long. That is not a bad % (1 HR every 29 at bats) and he does hit over .200. But in the case of Carlos Zambrano, with his career stats, nobody can pitch around the #8 hitter to get to him. Just because many pitchers can't hit well does not mean they shouldn't have to. And yes, laying down a bunt is a must skill. A pitcher should be able to lay it down well. And I've seen pitchers used as pinch hitters before (Marquis did a couple times last year). I can't understand why the pitcher should be able to just pitch and not bat, and the DH should be able to just hit and not take the field. That is not baseball to me. So yea, I guess I totally disagree with you about the DH and about the Wild Card!
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:50 pm
CUBSWINWORLDSERIES wrote: TheAntrider wrote: Well, there are pitchers who hit well (Dontrelle Willis), but the majority look like they are not even sure how to hold a bat. I'd much prefer strategy involving things more than "Ok, this guy can lay down a bunt 1 out of 100 times, how do we get someone across?"
Also, we're still talking about career .200 hitters with one homer. It's better than me, but still pretty awful. But anyway, that's why there's the NL. ha ha My Carlos Marmol example was a bad one, but you did notice that his 1 HR was in 29 career at bats. He has not been in the league very long. That is not a bad % (1 HR every 29 at bats) and he does hit over .200. But in the case of Carlos Zambrano, with his career stats, nobody can pitch around the #8 hitter to get to him. Just because many pitchers can't hit well does not mean they shouldn't have to. And yes, laying down a bunt is a must skill. A pitcher should be able to lay it down well. And I've seen pitchers used as pinch hitters before (Marquis did a couple times last year). I can't understand why the pitcher should be able to just pitch and not bat, and the DH should be able to just hit and not take the field. That is not baseball to me. So yea, I guess I totally disagree with you about the DH and about the Wild Card! I pretty much agree with everything in this post. NL 4 lyfe!  But seriously, I hate the DH.
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Joined: 23 Aug 2007 | Posts: 2890 | Location: Oregon
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:08 am
Admiral79 wrote: nevernever wrote: *cough*Cardinals*cough* THAT's WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! TheAntrider wrote: I am a huge fan of the DH, unless you want to inflate pitching stats. I think it's silly to have one guy come up every few innings who I could hit better than. Do you think you can hit better than this former pitcher? Did somebody say MVP?  TheAntrider wrote: But I disdain the wild card. It has done little but make teams who take the first half of the season off into champions over teams who do things right (generally). What are you talking about?! The wildcard is the greatest thing that has ever happened to baseball! Considering there is no salary cap, without it the smaller market teams wouldn't even stand a chance to make the playoffs. The wildcard also makes a lot more games relevant at the end of the season and provides us with much better drama in those games as well as the playoffs. |
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Joined: 08 Sep 2004 | Posts: 1335 | Location: COLUMBUS, GA
Last edited by Admiral79 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:30 am
this conversation makes me think of a special moment in the i think the 06 season when the Tigers were playing in Wrigley and Fernando Rodney was allowed to hit. It was the funniest at bat ive seen to date. _________________ But I cannot discover any advantage except in honor, in glory, and in right action. Therefore I consider these goals to be primary and supreme over all others. Cicero |
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:45 am
Admiral79 wrote: Admiral79 wrote: nevernever wrote: *cough*Cardinals*cough* THAT's WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! TheAntrider wrote: I am a huge fan of the DH, unless you want to inflate pitching stats. I think it's silly to have one guy come up every few innings who I could hit better than. Do you think you can hit better than this former pitcher? Did somebody say MVP? TheAntrider wrote: But I disdain the wild card. It has done little but make teams who take the first half of the season off into champions over teams who do things right (generally). What are you talking about?! The wildcard is the greatest thing that has ever happened to baseball! Considering there is no salary cap, without it the smaller market teams wouldn't even stand a chance to make the playoffs. The wildcard also makes a lot more games relevant at the end of the season and provides us with much better drama in those games as well as the playoffs. I said MOST pitchers! ha ha. Anyway, the "I could hit better than" thing was hopefully obvious hyperbole. But maybe not ... But How many truly poor teams have gotten a WC to victory? The Marlins have won twice, and then sold off their teams both times in the name of huge profits. The Red Sox won once, and are nearly up there with the Yankees in spending. Mostly, I've seen teams that choose to spend miserly to line owners' pockets, but splurge once in a while to fool their fans into thinking they are competitive. (This excludes the Sox, who I actually give props to for their continued spending in hopes of fielding a good team for their fans, instead of an owner just getting another private jet or something.) Ouch ... I don't have it in me to debate baseball very long at this point in the season. I'd rather mostly not get worked up over things until after the All Star break. _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:16 am
Another thing that's great about baseball is the variety - the parks don't all look the same, pitchers don't all throw the same, and batters don't all hit the same. Similarly, the leagues don't both play under the same rules! I don't know why people get all hot & bothered about the DH - if you like it, you have the AL, and if you don't then you follow the NL. Best of both worlds! Personally I like the DH because ordering a pitcher (whose average BA is about .160) to try and execute a sacrifice bunt isn't strategy, it's necessity. Where did that Tiger fan go anyway? Disappeared? Maybe because the Royals left 'em in their dust!!! 
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:36 am
TheAntrider wrote: But How many truly poor teams have gotten a WC to victory? The Marlins have won twice, and then sold off their teams both times in the name of huge profits. The Red Sox won once, and are nearly up there with the Yankees in spending. Mostly, I've seen teams that choose to spend miserly to line owners' pockets, but splurge once in a while to fool their fans into thinking they are competitive. (This excludes the Sox, who I actually give props to for their continued spending in hopes of fielding a good team for their fans, instead of an owner just getting another private jet or something.) How many truly poor teams have gotten a WC to victory? Well, I'd argue that teams that have made the wildcard are not poor. Since the first wildcard playoffs in 1995 only 8 of the 26 teams were the worst of the 4 teams in their league that made the playoffs. I've listed the WC teams year by year along with the team with the worst record (denoted in red). So 69% of the time the wild card is better than at least one other team in their league playoffs. And, in fact, in the last 5 years only 1 of the 10 wildcard teams was the worst in the league. Furthermore, of the 9 wildcards that have advanced to the World Series, '97 Marlins, '00 Mets, '02 Angels and Giants, '03 Marlins, '04 Redsox, '05 Astros, '06 Tigers, and '07 Rockies. Only the 2 of them, the '00 Mets and '02 Giants, were the worst of the 4 playoff teams in their league that year. However, they had 94 and 95 wins respectively. And of all the wildcard teams, the lowest winning percentage has been .535. However, this percentage in some years has been enough for a team to win their division. In summary, the wildcard doesn't "allow" a poor team to sneak into the playoffs and win. I'd argue that with the unbalanced scheduling of Major League Baseball, the wild card is essential in ensuring that a good team is not punished and unjustly left out of the playoffs for not winning their division because of being in the same division as a great, dominant team. 1995 NL: Rockies 77-67, Reds 85-59 AL: Yankees 79-65, Mariners 89-66 1996 NL: Dodgers 90-72, Cardinals 88-74 AL: Orioles 88-74, Rangers 90-72 1997 NL: Marlins 92-70, Astros 84-78 AL: Yankees 96-66, Indians 86-75 1998 NL: Cubs 90-73, Padres 98-64 AL: Redsox 92-70, Rangers 88-74 1999 NL: Mets 97-66, Astros 97-65 AL: Redsox 94-68, Rangers 95-67 2000 NL: Mets 94-68, Cardinals 95-67 AL: Mariners 91-71, Yankees 87-74 2001 NL: Cardinals 93-69, Atlanta 88-74 AL: Oakland 102-60, Cleveland 91-71 2002 NL: Giants 95-66, Cardinals 97-65 AL: Angels 99-63, Twins 94-67 2003 NL: Marlins 91-71, Cubs 88-74 AL: Redsox 95-67, Twins 90-72 2004 NL: Astros 92-70, Dodgers 93-69 AL: Redsox 98-64, Twins/Angels 92-70 2005 NL: Astros 89-73, Padres 82-80 AL: Yankees 95-67, Angels 95-67 2006 NL: Padres 88-74, Cardinals 83-78 AL: Tigers 95-67, Athletics 93-69 2007 NL: Rockies 90-73, Cubs 85-77 AL: Yankees 94-68, Angels 94-68 |
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Laughing City Forum Index -> General -> Cubs -- Maybe next year...
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