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 Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:46 pm 
Saellys wrote: breathless wrote: Saellys wrote: There are portions of the Bible I take less seriously than others (see also: the Young Earth Creation thread), largely because they were not quoted directly from God or Jesus, and only got included in the Bible because seventy men thought they should be there. One of those is the "unequally yoked" passage. I don't really want to get involved in discussing the other issue, but - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. -2 Timothy 3:16 And yet that council I mentioned had the daunting and unenviable (not to mention quite probably unnecessary) task of deciding which books were canon and which were left out of the Bible. If all scripture is God-breathed, why did so much get left on the proverbial (har) cutting room floor? Not that I'm trying to start or further a religious debate or anything. People got questions, I got answers.  I never really saw the point in debating religion. There really is only one constant belief in the world and that is there can only be one truth. Things can only happen one way. Whether it is Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, they can all be wrong, but they can't all be right. So debating is pointless, because there is only one right, and humanity can never prove what that is. _________________ But I cannot discover any advantage except in honor, in glory, and in right action. Therefore I consider these goals to be primary and supreme over all others. Cicero |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2005 | Posts: 3611 | Location: San Diego
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:48 am
starbucksgod wrote: Saellys wrote: breathless wrote: Saellys wrote: There are portions of the Bible I take less seriously than others (see also: the Young Earth Creation thread), largely because they were not quoted directly from God or Jesus, and only got included in the Bible because seventy men thought they should be there. One of those is the "unequally yoked" passage. I don't really want to get involved in discussing the other issue, but - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. -2 Timothy 3:16 And yet that council I mentioned had the daunting and unenviable (not to mention quite probably unnecessary) task of deciding which books were canon and which were left out of the Bible. If all scripture is God-breathed, why did so much get left on the proverbial (har) cutting room floor? Not that I'm trying to start or further a religious debate or anything. People got questions, I got answers. I never really saw the point in debating religion. There really is only one constant belief in the world and that is there can only be one truth. Things can only happen one way. Whether it is Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, they can all be wrong, but they can't all be right. So debating is pointless, because there is only one right, and humanity can never prove what that is. I don't quite follow your logic. Many intelligent people believe that there is not only one truth. And many people (myself included) believe that it is possible to know the truth. Also, there are reasonable people who claim to be Christian Muslims, and Jewish Buddhists, etc. Debating is definitely useless when the people involved have already made up their minds and don't plan on changing them, regardless of what facts may be presented. But sometimes that is not the case. If truth matters, it is worth seeking out, and worth verifying. Discussions are generally how that happens. They are far from pointless. Or they can be, anyway. If truth doesn't matter, you should be a nihilist. (Also, I don't think you have to question the validity of that scripture in order to believe that is is ok to marry people of other religions. Also, also, no one here seems to really have any solid information about Sherri and Max. I wouldn't worry too much about them.) |
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Joined: 06 Nov 2002 | Posts: 432 | Location: Indy
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:59 am
Kappa962 wrote: starbucksgod wrote: Saellys wrote: breathless wrote: Saellys wrote: There are portions of the Bible I take less seriously than others (see also: the Young Earth Creation thread), largely because they were not quoted directly from God or Jesus, and only got included in the Bible because seventy men thought they should be there. One of those is the "unequally yoked" passage. I don't really want to get involved in discussing the other issue, but - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. -2 Timothy 3:16 And yet that council I mentioned had the daunting and unenviable (not to mention quite probably unnecessary) task of deciding which books were canon and which were left out of the Bible. If all scripture is God-breathed, why did so much get left on the proverbial (har) cutting room floor? Not that I'm trying to start or further a religious debate or anything. People got questions, I got answers. I never really saw the point in debating religion. There really is only one constant belief in the world and that is there can only be one truth. Things can only happen one way. Whether it is Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, they can all be wrong, but they can't all be right. So debating is pointless, because there is only one right, and humanity can never prove what that is. I don't quite follow your logic. Many intelligent people believe that there is not only one truth. And many people (myself included) believe that it is possible to know the truth. Also, there are reasonable people who claim to be Christian Muslims, and Jewish Buddhists, etc. Debating is definitely useless when the people involved have already made up their minds and don't plan on changing them, regardless of what facts may be presented. But sometimes that is not the case. If truth matters, it is worth seeking out, and worth verifying. Discussions are generally how that happens. They are far from pointless. Or they can be, anyway. If truth doesn't matter, you should be a nihilist. (Also, I don't think you have to question the validity of that scripture in order to believe that is is ok to marry people of other religions. Also, also, no one here seems to really have any solid information about Sherri and Max. I wouldn't worry too much about them.) Truth matters to me, and if you look at all the different religions out there, they all contradict themselves in some form. So, no they can't all be right. Its like two people looking at the sky and one saying it is daytime and the other saying it is night time. It can be day or night, but it cant be both. When I said debating is pointless, that was wrong. I was a little buzzed when I wrote that. I think there is always room for debate. When I said humanity can not possibly know what the one truth of existence, I mean that there are many theories and none of them have been proven to the point there is no reasonable argument against it. I'm a Christian; I have faith in Christ as my savior, but it is faith and not knowledge. There is a difference in believing in something and knowing it is true. _________________ But I cannot discover any advantage except in honor, in glory, and in right action. Therefore I consider these goals to be primary and supreme over all others. Cicero |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2005 | Posts: 3611 | Location: San Diego
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:49 am
starbucksgod wrote: Truth matters to me, and if you look at all the different religions out there, they all contradict themselves in some form. So, no they can't all be right. Its like two people looking at the sky and one saying it is daytime and the other saying it is night time. It can be day or night, but it cant be both. Yes it can Grasshopper, on one side of the world it is day and on the other side it is night. And what about dusk and dawn or even Twilight hehe. _________________ 
we're really not alone, we have each other |
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Joined: 13 Jan 2007 | Posts: 2600 | Location: sitting in his nowhere land, TX
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:27 am
starbucksgod wrote: Truth matters to me, and if you look at all the different religions out there, they all contradict themselves in some form. So, no they can't all be right. Its like two people looking at the sky and one saying it is daytime and the other saying it is night time. It can be day or night, but it cant be both.
When I said debating is pointless, that was wrong. I was a little buzzed when I wrote that. I think there is always room for debate. When I said humanity can not possibly know what the one truth of existence, I mean that there are many theories and none of them have been proven to the point there is no reasonable argument against it. I'm a Christian; I have faith in Christ as my savior, but it is faith and not knowledge. There is a difference in believing in something and knowing it is true. You are making assumptions about the nature of truth. I happen to agree with you, but many people don't. It is not readily apparent to everyone that two contradictory things cannot both be true. I don't see how you could be a Christian Muslim, but there are reasonable people who claim that they are Christian Muslims. Like I said, I agree with you, but many reasonable, intelligent people would disagree with us. Our understanding of truth is far from being obviously correct. (notice Nowhere Man's point.) Also, I do disagree with you about the possibility of knowing things that cannot be logically proven. I believe there is real, knowable truth that is unprovable by logic. Logic is important, but it is not our only means of finding truth/knowledge. Even in the exact sciences, logic is not the only means. Beauty is one of the standards of truth. A complicated, ugly hypothesis will frequently be thrown out even if experimental data supports it. An elegant theory will be held onto even when is seems unlikely to be true. Coming from a Christian perspective, you might be interested in the book "The Evidential Power of Beauty" which explores this particular topic. We probably should migrate this conversation to another thread if we wish to continue much farther. |
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Joined: 06 Nov 2002 | Posts: 432 | Location: Indy
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:23 pm
Kappa962 wrote: starbucksgod wrote: Truth matters to me, and if you look at all the different religions out there, they all contradict themselves in some form. So, no they can't all be right. Its like two people looking at the sky and one saying it is daytime and the other saying it is night time. It can be day or night, but it cant be both.
When I said debating is pointless, that was wrong. I was a little buzzed when I wrote that. I think there is always room for debate. When I said humanity can not possibly know what the one truth of existence, I mean that there are many theories and none of them have been proven to the point there is no reasonable argument against it. I'm a Christian; I have faith in Christ as my savior, but it is faith and not knowledge. There is a difference in believing in something and knowing it is true. You are making assumptions about the nature of truth. I happen to agree with you, but many people don't. It is not readily apparent to everyone that two contradictory things cannot both be true. I don't see how you could be a Christian Muslim, but there are reasonable people who claim that they are Christian Muslims. Like I said, I agree with you, but many reasonable, intelligent people would disagree with us. Our understanding of truth is far from being obviously correct. (notice Nowhere Man's point.) Also, I do disagree with you about the possibility of knowing things that cannot be logically proven. I believe there is real, knowable truth that is unprovable by logic. Logic is important, but it is not our only means of finding truth/knowledge. Even in the exact sciences, logic is not the only means. Beauty is one of the standards of truth. A complicated, ugly hypothesis will frequently be thrown out even if experimental data supports it. An elegant theory will be held onto even when is seems unlikely to be true. Coming from a Christian perspective, you might be interested in the book "The Evidential Power of Beauty" which explores this particular topic. We probably should migrate this conversation to another thread if we wish to continue much farther. I think we agree on a few points and a lot of what you said makes a lot of sense. I'll have to think about it. _________________ But I cannot discover any advantage except in honor, in glory, and in right action. Therefore I consider these goals to be primary and supreme over all others. Cicero |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2005 | Posts: 3611 | Location: San Diego
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