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 Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:03 am 
piperjay23 wrote: I am not licensed insurance agent (anymore). The above information was supplied for discussion purposes only. Consult a licensed insurance agent for accurate rates and legal parameters of group insurance. ^^I don't know about anyone else, but I really appreciate the conversation transitioning and you sharing some pragmatic ideas. Also, mentioning your background in the Insurance industry helps me understand what that struck you. It's obviously something you've dealt with from both sides, as a consumer, and as a provider. I know my stepmom always reacts a little stronger to issue involving personal health because of her profession as a RN (with an MA in neonatal I think...). Maybe that's presumptive of me, but I think this thread should be called "Everybody has presumptions, let's share!" Anyways, the info you could share stands to benefit any of us if you were so inclined, as health care is an issue for alot of people. And may be for more very soon, with the downturn and all. Beyond that, a lot of people on here are going to be leaving college and are getting to the age where, if they were covered on their parents policy, they won't be much longer, so info would be a boon to them. And there are a number of musicians who may have part time gigs that offer no coverage that could benefit from some insight too. So... how much time you got??? I'll trade you for all my knowledge about the record industry and distribution and copyrighting schemes in the late 20th century and early 21st... _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB           
 = personal fave  = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:22 am
^ Employer based health plans $#@! over anyone who doesn't work a "traditional" 9-5 job. I'll be happy if professionally trained musicians can get affordable health insurance just like any other skilled worker.UHC _________________ EisleyForever wrote: you're A-list in my heart! MAKECOLDPLAYHISTORY |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005 | Posts: 8868 | Location: Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:23 am
^^ Thanks for the nod. I don't know that my experience is anything beyond ordinary. It's probably more a function of age (37) and tread marks on my back. But I agree...so many people out there just aren't aware of what can be done. It's like the idea that credit and personal finance should be taught in all high schools (like homec (cooking) used to be). So many college freshman bury themselves in credit card debt mostly for a lack of understanding the long-term ramifications. I would suggest this to any part-time musician, or any person who has a skill or trade or service that they get paid to deliver...depending on your state...(it's all free info online and the filing is usually no more than a couple hundred dollars)...FORM A COMPANY! Either LLC or Incorporate. Your liability (should your amp accidentally burn down a coffee shop for example) is far less, you have the ability to deduct all expenses associated with practicing and honing your craft. Strings, gas to and fro, meals, uniforms, make-up...whatever it is. Most people take a standard deduction on fed taxes because it's more advantageous than itemizing. Thus, all small deductions are lost. Generally itemizing on the individual level doesn't pay off unless you have kids, mortgage, property taxes, investment losses, all the big ones. But if you take business deductions on a corporate level, everything is valid and you greatly reduce your taxable income. Form a company! It's legit, everyone is doing it, you protect yourself and protect the money you earn, and thus can re-invest those tax "savings" into growing your enterprise. It doesn't have to be some grand idea to merit corporate status either. Teach piano? Form a company. Have a clown business for kid's parties? Form a company. Even if you have a full-time job and you don't make that much on the side. You never know what it may grow into, and the longer history of revenue and expenses the company has, the more likely you will be able to secure a loan to grow the business down the road, or be able to declare the income on your application for a home purchase, or whatever.... Just remember to keep good records. Buy a two drawer filing cabinet and keep everything consolidated and in order by date. The above are just suggestions, by no means am I an expert or claim to know more than anyone here about this. Opinions should not be miscinstrued as fact or arrogantly implied fact. _________________ Something's not right... |
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Joined: 08 May 2008 | Posts: 80 | Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:28 am
DRMS_7888 wrote: ^
Employer based health plans $#@! over anyone who doesn't work a "traditional" 9-5 job. I'll be happy if professionally trained musicians can get affordable health insurance just like any other skilled worker.UHC I'm curious to know more about this...please provide more detail. I know that to get an employer based plan it needs to be your primary vocation, and you need to be incorporated and whatever else. Revenue is also important, so you have to show a history of income and profit. Sometimes, young/new entities don't get good rates. You pay through the nose for a few years and then go shopping around and since you have an established history...everyone wants your business so they drop their pants (can I say that here?) Please, do tell. _________________ Something's not right... |
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Joined: 08 May 2008 | Posts: 80 | Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:29 am
piperjay23 wrote: Not knowing the current organizational structure of the band....  
piperjay23 wrote: I'm trying to be constructive here. My OP was what you'd call a "response Piece." Maybe it worked. I really don't care if you like me or not. I think had we (other members of the forum) never the ability to respond, or had this at least been approached differently, if it had to be "public" at all, the generally negative response you got could have been entirely different. It has nothing to do with liking you or disliking you, or anything on a personal level. I sinecrely hope that's not a real concern for anyone on a message board, but since you came here with a very sincere "response," I have to believe you at least wanted your opinions to be appreciated. Like I said, had this been approached differently, that could have been very possible. Sure some here seem to live Over The Rainbow, and that's kind of weird to me, but most of us appear to be pretty reasonable people. Hopefully some positives can still come out of it. I agree that your last post, though in my opinion still kind of personal and probably best suited for a PM if you want a response, is certainly a better direction. _________________ Albert Camus wrote: Always go too far, because that's where you'll find the truth. |
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Joined: 04 May 2007 | Posts: 3862 |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:37 am
^^diord locotorp _________________ Something's not right... |
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Joined: 08 May 2008 | Posts: 80 | Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:54 am
piperjay23 wrote: ^^diord locotorp .trats t'nod .lanigiro woh
I actually have my grandfather's book on Closely-held Corporation in the bookshelf next to me. I haven't gotten to this point in school yet (and probably won't - the older I get, the less I care about having a "safe" career) so I'm in no way as hip to the subject as you, but I have read some of it and have some questions as to whether it would be in their best interest, but I'm pretty sure they don't want to discuss such things as Eisley's net income with their fans. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
In any case, I wrote my droid-esque response before you went even more off course, so forgive me. _________________ Albert Camus wrote: Always go too far, because that's where you'll find the truth. |
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Joined: 04 May 2007 | Posts: 3862 |
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:07 am
Just having a little fun! Took a page from your book, thought you'd enjoy it. And topical to Eisley's namesake as well.
You are correct. Privately held companies (as I propose) have full secrecy of the books. The only people with access outside the board are employees of the IRS. Only publicly held companies must offer full disclosure of past performance as well as regular projections on current and future earnings. Not to belabor the point or the reference, but U2 has a few holding corporations, each is presided over by a different member of the band. All list the children of the bandmembers as beneficiaries. One company each for: 1) tour and live performance 2) record sales, 3) physical assets (merchandise, archives, equipment), and finally 4) song rights. (I think that's how it breaks down) But it is interesting how the financial performance of each company fluctuates based on what cycle of recording, touring, time-off etc the band is in. Also, each of the companies owe each other money all the time. The companies "loan" money to one another to finance various projects during the cycle. There was an article about it that was pretty darn good, i'll look for it. Oh yeah, the reason this info was public because in Ireland, even private or closely held business records are public info. And no, I'm not trying to make Eisley into U2. That was funny...ignorant...but funny. _________________ Something's not right... |
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Joined: 08 May 2008 | Posts: 80 | Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:46 am
piperjay23 wrote: ^^ Thanks for the nod.
I don't know that my experience is anything beyond ordinary. It's probably more a function of age (37) and tread marks on my back. But I agree...so many people out there just aren't aware of what can be done. It's like the idea that credit and personal finance should be taught in all high schools (like homec (cooking) used to be). So many college freshman bury themselves in credit card debt mostly for a lack of understanding the long-term ramifications. You're welcome. As far as college loans and credit card debt... Here's a scenario a think alot of us may have experienced, but not handled the same way: Freshman week, orientation, or first day of college. Your financial aid has not been dispersed, you go to your classes, and find out what books you have to buy. You go to the bookstore and outside they are giving away T-shirts and candy bars if you fill out a credit card app. All they need is your student id. They say, 'Put Student as occupation.' and 'if you don't want it, just cut it up when it comes." You go into the bookstore and find out your box are 300 bucks (that was the cost back in 05 last time I took a full load of classes). You find out your aid doesn't hit till october, and you university account is frozen till the. The card comes 7 days later, credit limit of 300-500 bucks, interest rate of 12.99% etc. What do you do??? Anyways, there are a lot of mitigating factors, but it's really easy to get sucked in, but hey, I got 2 candybars and a tshirt for the 4 grand in Credit Card debt I ran up! I learned the hard way and was lucky enough to refinance (via my own wrangling) my CC debt with the surplus of a unsubsidized student load at 2.85%, and then consolidated all my student loans with extended repayment period at a low rate, but the debt isn't going anywhere.
I thought kids who bought cars and computers with their surpluses were silly, but the rates that the normal credit to buy those items was 5 and 10 times as much as the student loans in my day, and the utility of those items made a lot of the quirks of school much easier to deal with. I couldn't see past the class room and dorm room. Finance is a part of "Home Economics" but to teach eat in a discernible way to young folk would cut into the profits are some very well entrenched and well connected financial institutions, so it's an uphill climb. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:31 am
piperjay23 wrote: Not knowing the current organizational structure of the band....
Incorporate in the State of Texas. Make it a holding company for all things Eisley. Everything from intruments, strings, hotel rooms, meals, web fees, batteries for the camera, any cup of coffee where Eisley was discussed, etc would be tax deductible expenses to the corporation, not the individuals. Write a charter with a board of control which would most likely consist of the owners (band members). Then make everyone critically associated with the band (Boyd) an employee, including the playing members. Compile the list of employees and apply for a group health plan. Not sure what rates are like in Texas, but a 25 year old female, single, no children for premier level coverage in Ohio is about $225 per month in most groups of 5-15 employees. That expense is federally tax deductable. At a 30% federal tax rate, the real cost at the end of the year is about $157 per month. More than 15 employees and the rates go to a grid that becomes a flat rate per person determined by the overall health and welfare of the insured group as obtained from the insurance applications (i.e. diabetes, cancer, depression smoker y/n). That is why small-mid sized companies prefer to hire healthy young people with no kids...to keep the group rate down. That is also why it is illegal to ask any of those questions in a job interview. I like "Trolley Wood Holdings, Inc." I'm trying to be constructive here. My OP was what you'd call a "response Piece." Maybe it worked. I really don't care if you like me or not. I am not licensed insurance agent (anymore). The above information was supplied for discussion purposes only. Consult a licensed insurance agent for accurate rates and legal parameters of group insurance. This all makes good sense, and I wish you had included it in your first post. I will state a great big assumption at the risk of making an ass of u and me, and say that I would guess the reason Eisley have not already done that is because their contract with Warner Brothers prohibits such an arrangement. I am not a music business lawyer (or former music business lawyer), but I based on what little I know of how the industry operates nowadays, I can easily see that being the case. U2 really aren't the best example, in this case at least, to which to compare Eisley. They got signed in a different era. They've been around for thirty years, slowly building the capital to back up such an elaborate system. To expect Eisley to achieve anything close to that at this point in their career is asking too much. _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003 | Posts: 14510 | Location: Alone on an airplane, fallin' asleep against the windowpane...
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:13 am
Saellys wrote: I have sorely missed your posts. I know you put a lot of time and effort into them, maybe more than necessary, but you have a way of laying things out in a logically airtight manner that's inspiring. Thanks. It is more than necessary, I believe. (In fact, I'm already struggling over a short response to your short reply... ugh! So I'll just keep it simple and delete my ramblings.) I should have gotten a good night's sleep and not been so cranky today. piperjay23 wrote: It's like the idea that credit and personal finance should be taught in all high schools (like homec (cooking) used to be). So many college freshman bury themselves in credit card debt mostly for a lack of understanding the long-term ramifications.
There are a lot of things that should probably be taught in school that simply aren't. Personal finance is definitely one. But public schools seem to be moving in a direction where the sole focus is college preparation (academically). For example, recently the state of Texas required all high school students to have 4 years of math and science in addition to the 4 years of English and social studies they were already requiring. Because the state is requiring more courses for graduation there is less room for electives. The state COULD require students to take a course in something like finance but the trend seems to be (at least in my eyes) to neglect the "real world" in favor of the college world. There is a big debate about whether or not ALL students need to be prepared for college. I'm not about to get into that debate here. But it seems to me that high school should try to prepare students for all aspects of life after high school. It is possible that current courses like economics have units on personal finance, but I don't know that they're as in-depth as they need to be. I can't say because I don't teach economics. But I am a math teacher and when I see so many students without a fundamental grasp of what percents are I can't help but believe they wouldn't have a clue about anything involving more complex uses of percents. OK, I'm doing it again... writing and thinking too much. I need to go. Ugh. I've been home an hour and a half and I started this message shortly after I got home. Grrr. _________________ "If you're a ninja, every day is like friday." -Jamie M. |
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Joined: 28 Jan 2003 | Posts: 2857 | Location: Lake Jackson, TX
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Post subject: Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 2:49 pm
I love Eisley . I'm here for the music.
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Joined: 30 May 2008 | Posts: 309 | Location: above the tree tops
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:37 am
wilsmith wrote: Nowhere Man wrote: bigideas wrote: if a really rough looking pregnant woman asked you if she looked pretty what would you say?  Are you comparing Eisley to a rough looking pregnant woman? Album 3 is the baby then?
I'd say "Why yes. Now play Lady of the Wood! Lady of the Wood! Lady of the Wood!" uhm, I just though it was a hypothetical tact test... a really cutting one at that, but a legitimate question all the same, at least rhetorically. yeah, that was the gest (jest - how do you spell that?). anywho, i didn't even think of the The Baby possible subplot.
i'm 4 days behind and out of the loop so if someone addressed a question to me you'll have to point it out. _________________ I am Torgo. I take care of the place while the Master is away. |
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Joined: 05 Nov 2002 | Posts: 6826 | Location: Gilmer, Tejas
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Post subject: Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:57 am
I think this has become the practical wisdom thread now regarding Insurance and Personal Finances for people not covered by their jobs, spouses, or parents... at least for now... I think we're on a parallel track to it's original intent, I think... _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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