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 Post subject: The Business Of Eisley - Constructive CriticismPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:51 am 
I have been lurking for sometime here and haven't posted in a looong time. I have kept quiet because historically I have a tendancy to focus on what can be done better or different versus what has been done well. Call it a flaw or an atribute, but I'm a fixer. The merits of Eisley are obvious...we know what they do well. But what about the things that they so obviously need to do better.... I think the Baylor show was the culmination of the greater challenges with Eisley in their current form. Poor sound, rusty, not well-rehearsed, weak stage presence, etc. Yes, the new songs are very good. Yes, hearing and seeing Eisley live again was great. But after such a long layoff with a highly anticipated one-off, don't you think they should have been MUCH better prepared? Recently, Eilsley Mom became ill. Apparently she almost died! Terrible challenge for the entire family. In a blog post it was made known that they don't have health insurance....wait...what? They have two family businesses as I understand it (coffee shop and band). How do they not have health coverage. These folks are Texas republicans. Self sufficiency is a fundemental tenent of their political platform. No insurance? How is that a wise business decision on any front? We know too much about their personal lives. They need to withdrawal and protect their inner workings. Create some mystique and be prepared to present themselves as consumate professionals on stage. They aren't kids anymore. They are getting married and have kids of their own. It is time to leave the nest and start treating this venture as a carreer. Eisley needs to become a LOT more professional on all fronts. The talent and music is there, but it will not sustain their lives and their families if they keep acting like some kids act. And before anyone lectures me on the challenges of supporting a music act in the modern era and the cost of health insurance...stop. I own a small business that generates a lot less revenue than Eisley. And my family and all my employees have a company sponsored health plan. It's not rocket science. It's a little less time blogging from coffee shops and a lot more time working on the business. _________________ Something's not right... |
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Joined: 08 May 2008 | Posts: 80 | Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:29 am
Cleveland sucks! But seriously, to say they put too much information out there, and then use it to berate them is a good reason to hold your tongue. It undermines your point, but since we went there: They are a family of 9 by my counting. Coffee shops don't make a whole lot of money. Bands don't make a whole lot of money. As of 1993 selling 500,000 units in band of 3 members garners 31,000 a member - over the course of however much time it takes to sell that many records ( Q-Tip of a Tribe Called Quest did a breakdown of how their pay outs could be calculated that year on Mtv when the Low End Theory went gold ). That was in post HW Bush recession recovery money. Eisley's sound scan is not close to that to my knowledge, and we are talking Post 9/11, Iraq War, Katrina money for each release. The dollar is worth less, insurance is MORE expensive and has always been moreso for women. And if the kids aren't in college after a certain age, a parent's insurance wont cover them. Now, if one person has a major health issue, getting coverage is a lot harder. Hipaa can only protect you if you've had longstanding coverage and no long gaps between coverage, and isn't a full proof way to avoid being denied coverage if a policy maker considers you too much of a risk. By and large, sans a HIT, most musicians live hand to mouth, and make a living off of live performance, all the while, having to pay the costs of maintaining gear, travel, and Living. Bills must be paid, mouths fed, people clothed. Projecting one's standards onto another context doesn't always work, particularly if we are talking about working in the music industry as a profession. It's not the cash cow people make it out to be, and tastes are fickle, and work arounds to paying for the goods are proliferating. I get it that you want more for the band, better for the band, but what you've put out there comes off as crass and inconsiderate, and I'm assuming that's not what you intended, but the level of empathy you have for them seems to be undercut with a little contempt. At least that's how it comes off to me. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB           
 = personal fave  = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
Last edited by wilsmith on Wed May 06, 2009 4:07 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:43 am
Haha, I just find this post kind of trivial and worthy. Knocking them on a performance they were bummed about afterwards and then lecturing them about health insurance... Nice.
These "constructive criticism" posts always seem to pop up every year before the summertime. Let's face it, we're not in the industry. We have no clue what it feels like to be in a band that people want to know things about. They get people saying, "You need to be out there more" and then they get people saying, "You need to stay mysterious and hidden." I'd be confused as hell. It's a subjective thing and they're doing what they want. I think that's all we should expect from them. _________________ "I cannot discuss your verses; for any attempt at criticism would be foreign to me. Nothing touches a work of art so little as words of criticism." -- Rainer Maria Rilke |
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Joined: 19 Nov 2005 | Posts: 1045 | Location: Mansfield and Austin
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Post subject: Re: The Business Of Eisley - Constructive Criticism Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:57 am
piperjay23 wrote: And before anyone lectures me on the challenges of supporting a music act in the modern era and the cost of health insurance...stop. I own a small business that generates a lot less revenue than Eisley. I think you seriously overestimate Eisley's revenue. Either that or your business is about to go under. Also, they don't own a coffee shop. They promote shows periodically under the name "Brewtones", but it's the opposite of a profitable venture. |
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Joined: 06 Nov 2002 | Posts: 432 | Location: Indy
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:12 am
Caley wrote: Haha, I just find this post kind of trivial and worthy. Knocking them on a performance they were bummed about afterwards and then lecturing them about health insurance... Nice.
These "constructive criticism" posts always seem to pop up every year before the summertime. Let's face it, we're not in the industry. We have no clue what it feels like to be in a band that people want to know things about. They get people saying, "You need to be out there more" and then they get people saying, "You need to stay mysterious and hidden." I'd be confused as hell. It's a subjective thing and they're doing what they want. I think that's all we should expect from them. I agree with you, and also I think the reason why so many people love them so much besides for their music is the for all the info they put out. I don't think it's kid-like at all. _________________ Kneel before your god Babylon! "I don't wanna touch you and feel so helpless; I don't wanna smell you and lose my senses" Rufus Wainwright, Foolish Love |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007 | Posts: 807 | Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:23 am
Just to put things in perspective, Juliana Hatfield admits to being able to sustain a decent life off her music, and now publishing career, supporting herself, and up till last year, a dog. But it's been a struggle at times, case in Point: Send Money, from her 2005 lp Made In China (self released) http://new.music.yahoo.com/juliana-hatfield/tracks/send-money--2200377 6 **The Cover art for this record is NSFW but also not graphic, hard to explain. Like a tv show when someone is nude, but obscured so it's not obscene... anyways, this is about the words and music, just figured I'd put that warning out there** When you talk to god Tell him I said hi But he don’t need to bless me Because I am all right already Would you kill for Jesus When you’ve never met The man you’ve only read about I want proof because I’m full of doubt Save yourself Save yourself If you want to pray for me Tell God to send me some money Save yourself Save yourself If you want to pray for me Tell God to send me some money Don’t I wish you could do my thinking for me But it doesn’t work that way And this marriage is not officially ordained We just love each other And I am an unwed mother I love the world I love my beautiful girls Save yourself… If you want to pray for me Tell God to send me some money I don't know about you guys, but when I first heard this song, my heart sunk. Consider Eisley doesn't have a Spin the Bottle or Universal Heart Beat, a My Sister, a guest appearance on My So-Called Life or a book published... It's rough out there. BTW, before ever criticizing a bands business sense, familiarize yourself wit the concept of the record company's Recoupable: They bill for every cost that goes into the production and promotion of the material, and that has to be paid back before any dividends will be paid out to the band beyond an advance. That means, paying the production, engineering and mastering crew, the cost for the studio, the printing, distributing, and promoting of the cd, etc, etc, etc. In some contracts, the company will forgive it after a second or third record is delivered and write it off as a loss. No matter what, the band doesn't see one red cent until that cost is covered in most deals. The only revenue streams they can rely on for immediate dividends is touring and merch, which have their own costs to absorb as well. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:53 am
Not knowing anything about the business world, least of all the music business world, all I will say is that I agree with Wilsmith in so far is that I understand you want the best for the band, but your post reads harshly. Why? You knocked them on their personal choices - ie the lack of medical cover. Whether they have medical cover or not has no relation to their business as a band, which at the end of the day is to make music that people enjoy and will buy, other than that it all costs money. heck, if we're bashing them for not having medical cover, why not bash them on consuming so many starbucks - i bet they could save a whole lot if they cut down!
Yes, we know Kim nearly died, and yes we do know a lot about Eisley - I'm sure many of us sound like we actually know them when we talk about them to our friends - but we don't know them, and we don't know everything that's going on in their lives. A stranger is not in any way the best person to admonish someone for their choices, so frankly we should leave them be. They have brains and they have hearts which I'm sure they are using to the best of their ability. Why not trust them to live their lives in a way that they see fit? other people's lives are not as perfect as they seem _________________ She is handsome, she is pretty, she is the girl from Belfast City, she is courtin' one two three, please won't you tell me who is she? TheClassicRomance wrote: Facebook is a dirty skank blog! |
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005 | Posts: 7598 | Location: Dundee, scotland
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:59 am
texas republicans? ewwwwwww |
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Joined: 29 Oct 2006 | Posts: 2 |
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Post subject: Re: The Business Of Eisley - Constructive Criticism Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:04 am
piperjay23 wrote: We know too much about their personal lives. They need to withdrawal and protect their inner workings. Create some mystique and be prepared to present themselves as consumate professionals on stage. They aren't kids anymore. They are getting married and have kids of their own. It is time to leave the nest and start treating this venture as a carreer. I know that's your opinion but most Eisley fans here actually feel happy and privileged to know more about their personal lives. It kind of makes them part of the family. It's also a way to stay out there when the band isn't touring and there hasn't been new music coming out. There are artists that put out an album, everybody knows them for 2-3 months or so, then they fall into obscurity for 2 years until their next record is released. Regular updates are great for keeping the interest in the music, I think. The way you say it - "protect" their personal lives - makes sense, but the people who would actually "attack" their personal lives are certainly not among their fans. Actually you're closer to attacking their personal lives with your post here than anyone on this board has been in some time. Keeping a band is expensive, what if it turns out that the money for insurance are money that Eisley uses to continue recording and doing tours? |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2007 | Posts: 623 | Location: Bulgaria
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:06 am
There is no reason why professional musicians can't practice a couple hours a day to keep their technical and ensemble skills in shape. I haven't seen Eisley in a while, and don't see how they practice, so I can't vouch for any of that. But, I do know that most people confuse practicing with playing. Practicing means identifying mistakes and eliminating them through repetition. It doesn't matter if you play at Orchestra Hall or the House of Blues, no audience member needs to hear a mistake you neglected to correct. _________________ EisleyForever wrote: you're A-list in my heart! MAKECOLDPLAYHISTORY |
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005 | Posts: 8868 | Location: Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:22 am
I wouldn't consider you a lurker, as I remember your "Praise for Eisley (Something Other Than)" thread as if you posted it yesterday. It was obvious as soon as I started reading this thread that it was you. Even though you put "constructive criticism" in the thread title, your criticism is not constructive. I love Eisley. I love the music they make. I love their live performances. In fact, they are my favorite band to go see life and one of the only bands that I always have to see when they are here. I love how open they are with us. They don't need to change to make you happy. All they need to do is make music how they want to and be happy for themselves. All I can say concerning insurance is that it's difficult to have if you don't work for a company that provides it. I have type-1 diabetes and I know that when I'm on my own it's going to be hard. _________________ 
j'ai pas envie d'être un robot, métro boulot dodo -Kelli |
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005 | Posts: 1720 | Location: utah
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:30 am
DRMS_7888 wrote: It doesn't matter if you play at Orchestra Hall or the House of Blues, no audience member needs to hear a mistake you neglected to correct. True, but there's a difference between that and just getting it wrong on the day. I know practice reduces the chances of that occuring, but Ortberg's drummer friend Kent says: "If I refuse to sing a word or play a note until I'm certain of perfection, there will never be music." What Eisley needs to ascertain more than us (the only reason we would to know is so we have a basis for our opinion) was whether it was a lack of practice or whether they... just got it wrong on the day. Which happens. Duke Special forgot the words to Creaky Boat Blues on saturday night... good quality video apart from when the cameraman zooms in and out! (the banjo player also screwed up)! _________________ She is handsome, she is pretty, she is the girl from Belfast City, she is courtin' one two three, please won't you tell me who is she? TheClassicRomance wrote: Facebook is a dirty skank blog! |
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005 | Posts: 7598 | Location: Dundee, scotland
Last edited by mad_sam_purple'ead on Wed May 06, 2009 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:38 am
DRMS_7888 wrote: There is no reason why professional musicians can't practice a couple hours a day to keep their technical and ensemble skills in shape. I haven't seen Eisley in a while, and don't see how they practice, so I can't vouch for any of that. But, I do know that most people confuse practicing with playing. Practicing means identifying mistakes and eliminating them through repetition. It doesn't matter if you play at Orchestra Hall or the House of Blues, no audience member needs to hear a mistake you neglected to correct. I didn't even address that earlier. All I can say about that is according to Boyd rehearsal went smoothly, soundcheck went smoothly. Having been a live sound guy for a number of years, here's what i have to say about the performance criticism: Unless you have the worlds greatest on-the-fly sound engineer there will be instances of feedback and EQ adjustments (unless you're unamplified) and the resulting "muddiness" or feedback related to it (because you have to adjust to crowd noise live, as to not overplay or underplay the room). This is part of the live aspect of performance to large audiences in the modern age. As far as technical proficiency, outside of established works that are by tradition/ expectation, to be performed unaltered, the only mistakes are the ones you confess. Otherwise each performance is a living document, and a "one of a kind". The only composers standards Eisley are beholden to are their own. If they want to be pitch-perfect and on time, true to the recordings, that is their standard. If they want to wing it, that's their's to chose to. The paying customer can decide if they want to pay for it or not. No One paid for the Baylor show, though some did travel. I look at the Baylor gig along the lines of a "Tune-Up" gig akin to when a big band adopts a pseudonym and plays a unpublicized club show before a big tour. That they let us all know is a courtesy. Buy hook or crook I'm sure most of us have enjoyed their intellectual property, and hopefully paid for it. That said, you get what you pay for. Knocking this show on the basis of high standards works for criticism, for criticisms sake, but really, how constructive is it? As the old saying goes, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Joined: 09 Apr 2008 | Posts: 9641 | Location: Greater St. Louis Area
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:13 am
As a self-imposed fan, do you really believe you have a place to say this kind of stuff? Even if it was all true, which from my perspective it all isn't, this is not the place, nor the way to advise people you don't know personally on how they should live and conduct their business. You seem to be way too invested and should probably take a step/huge leap back because I don't know anyone who would respond well, if at all to someone lacking any kind of credibility, who supposedly figured out the best route for them to take in his or her life. _________________ Albert Camus wrote: Always go too far, because that's where you'll find the truth. |
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Joined: 04 May 2007 | Posts: 3862 |
Last edited by tahruh on Wed May 06, 2009 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:23 am
This thread... wow. I'm in agreement on many aspects of the original post, and heaven knows I'm all about the free distribution of opinions via the Internet, but I have to wonder what you expected the response to be, Jason. You say you're a fixer, and that this is constructive criticism, but you don't offer any methods for Eisley to reach the place where you think they should be. They should have health insurance because your small business has health insurance? That doesn't make sense, and you can't possibly draw a comparison between being signed to a major label that is about to go bust and owning a small business. As for the faults of Eisley's live performance, I don't think more practice would hurt the band in any way, and would indeed probably help them quite a lot. There are things during a show you can't have any control over (bad soundguy, crap speakers, whatever), but if you take steps to make sure you're prepared for the performance itself, you'll be able to get through those inevitable issues much more gracefully. Some people view Eisley's slightly withdrawn twee stage presence as charming. I find it rather off-putting, but it seems to be working for them well enough, so I'm not going to tell them to change on my account. I agree that we know too much about their personal lives--obviously so, since you were able to criticize them for not having health insurance, which is a fact nobody really needs to know about them. Pulling back a little when it comes to full disclosure may create a backlash among fans who have, right or wrong, grown accustomed to this all-access view of Eisley, but in the long run I think it will be better for the band. guitargirl wrote: I wouldn't consider you a lurker, as I remember your "Praise for Eisley (Something Other Than)" thread as if you posted it yesterday. It was obvious as soon as I started reading this thread that it was you. That wasn't piperjay. The only posts he made in that thread were actually quite positive toward Eisley. _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Joined: 24 Sep 2003 | Posts: 14510 | Location: Alone on an airplane, fallin' asleep against the windowpane...
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