|
goto page | next >>
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Author | Message | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
 Post subject: is this music?Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:24 am 
Ok, time for some philosphy and the like concerning music. I've been spending the past couple hours reading about process music and minimalist music and stuff like that. I came across this composition by John Cage called 4'33". It is a very interesting idea. _________________ Thistledown |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 | Posts: 4657 | Location: Melton Mowbray Pork Pie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
    |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:10 am
It can be concidered as music as there is no such thing as true silence and music is a string of sounds. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 | Posts: 572 | Location: London, UK
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:12 am
Finally a response. My opinion of it is close to the same. I feel that it is silence that has been organized in a very musical way. The whole idea of it seems very powerful to me. _________________ Thistledown |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 | Posts: 4657 | Location: Melton Mowbray Pork Pie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:38 am
I'm going to move this to music. I think music philosophy will go well there, too. _________________ My photography:www.jamiemphoto.com You can't spell awesome without emo...backwards! -Julie definingawesome (11:44:11 PM): Eisley shivers our timbers |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 | Posts: 25185 | Location: East Texas
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:02 am
I wouldn't consider that music. Nothing was created except for intervals of time. I'd consider it a performance... if somebody just sat at the piano and opened and closed the lid as described in that article. But I don't think it's a musical performance. Music is the structuring and organizing of sounds. This composer simply structured time (or, one could argue, silence). The sounds that naturally occur within yourself or a room do not contribute to the music because the composer is unable to manipulate those sounds. If the composer had some way of controlling the sounds made by people, electrical devices, air, whatever... then maybe he'd be creating music. One might say that the lack of silence is music. I don't think so. Music has to be specifically created as music. Otherwise it's just... sound. When I started reading this I was reminded of a painting I saw a few times. It was of a white canvas (interestingly enough, it's mentioned in that article). I can hardly consider that painting, but I suppose technically it is. The painter did select and apply paint of a specific color (white). Both of those might be instances of art because of the nature of creating or displaying or performing something... but I certainly can't call the first one music. _________________ "If you're a ninja, every day is like friday." -Jamie M. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 | Posts: 2857 | Location: Lake Jackson, TX
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
   |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:03 am
rmlawrence wrote: I wouldn't consider that music. Nothing was created except for intervals of time. I'd consider it a performance... if somebody just sat at the piano and opened and closed the lid as described in that article. But I don't think it's a musical performance.
Music is the structuring and organizing of sounds. This composer simply structured time (or, one could argue, silence). The sounds that naturally occur within yourself or a room do not contribute to the music because the composer is unable to manipulate those sounds. If the composer had some way of controlling the sounds made by people, electrical devices, air, whatever... then maybe he'd be creating music. One might say that the lack of silence is music. I don't think so. Music has to be specifically created as music. Otherwise it's just... sound. When I started reading this I was reminded of a painting I saw a few times. It was of a white canvas (interestingly enough, it's mentioned in that article). I can hardly consider that painting, but I suppose technically it is. The painter did select and apply paint of a specific color (white). Both of those might be instances of art because of the nature of creating or displaying or performing something... but I certainly can't call the first one music. Well, then how do you explain the jazz version of it? Hahaha... _________________ Thistledown |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 | Posts: 4657 | Location: Melton Mowbray Pork Pie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:07 am
It's music, but's it just a segment of music. Music is full of breaks and pauses (not so much in pop music, but moreso in classical.) The breaks are written into the parts. Without any of the different parts (rhythm, melody, harmony, or silence), the song wouldn't be the same. This piece might be considered highly improvisational because it's different each time. It is affected by the quality of the hinges on the piano, the crowd noise, the natural accoustics of the hall, and more. _________________ EisleyForever wrote: you're A-list in my heart! MAKECOLDPLAYHISTORY |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 | Posts: 8868 | Location: Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:09 am
DRMS_7888 wrote: It's music, but's it just a segment of music. Music is full of breaks and pauses (not so much in pop music, but moreso in classical.) The breaks are written into the parts. Without any of the different parts (rhythm, melody, harmony, or silence), the song wouldn't be the same.
This piece might be considered highly improvisational because it's different each time. It is affected by the quality of the hinges on the piano, the crowd noise, the natural accoustics of the hall, and more. I really liked the explanation for the inspiration of the piece. How he though he was going into a room where all was silence and yet there was still sound. It's a very romantic idea. Don't ask me to explain how though. It just is. _________________ Thistledown |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 | Posts: 4657 | Location: Melton Mowbray Pork Pie
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:11 am
rmlawrence wrote: I wouldn't consider that music. Nothing was created except for intervals of time. I'd consider it a performance... if somebody just sat at the piano and opened and closed the lid as described in that article. But I don't think it's a musical performance.
Music is the structuring and organizing of sounds. This composer simply structured time (or, one could argue, silence). The sounds that naturally occur within yourself or a room do not contribute to the music because the composer is unable to manipulate those sounds. If the composer had some way of controlling the sounds made by people, electrical devices, air, whatever... then maybe he'd be creating music. One might say that the lack of silence is music. I don't think so. Music has to be specifically created as music. Otherwise it's just... sound. When I started reading this I was reminded of a painting I saw a few times. It was of a white canvas (interestingly enough, it's mentioned in that article). I can hardly consider that painting, but I suppose technically it is. The painter did select and apply paint of a specific color (white). Both of those might be instances of art because of the nature of creating or displaying or performing something... but I certainly can't call the first one music. counting and keeping track of intervals and rests is the hardest kind of music to play. that's why tubas get good scholarships, they need to be able to keep time and know where they are supposed to come in at. _________________ www.flickr.com/photos/somecallmeallie www.envelopesandeggnog.blogspot.com www.somecallmeallie.deviantart.com |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 10 Mar 2007 | Posts: 2482 | Location: San Diego, California
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:17 am
i just put can't decide either way, because i can come up with ideas why it is not music but then i can balance that with ideas why it is music. Therefore yes and no and can't decide either way. _________________ But I cannot discover any advantage except in honor, in glory, and in right action. Therefore I consider these goals to be primary and supreme over all others. Cicero |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 09 Jun 2005 | Posts: 3611 | Location: San Diego
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:33 am
No. No it's not. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 | Posts: 4031 | Location: Austin
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:36 am
guitarfreak217 wrote: DRMS_7888 wrote: It's music, but's it just a segment of music. Music is full of breaks and pauses (not so much in pop music, but moreso in classical.) The breaks are written into the parts. Without any of the different parts (rhythm, melody, harmony, or silence), the song wouldn't be the same.
This piece might be considered highly improvisational because it's different each time. It is affected by the quality of the hinges on the piano, the crowd noise, the natural accoustics of the hall, and more. I really liked the explanation for the inspiration of the piece. How he though he was going into a room where all was silence and yet there was still sound. It's a very romantic idea. Don't ask me to explain how though. It just is. yeah it really came together once i read the page. it's a great idea and it is very true, i have never heard true silence. _________________ www.flickr.com/photos/somecallmeallie www.envelopesandeggnog.blogspot.com www.somecallmeallie.deviantart.com |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 10 Mar 2007 | Posts: 2482 | Location: San Diego, California
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:54 am
no! music isn't a product, it's a process. and there is NO process to playing 4 minutes of SILENCE. i don't care what anyone says i am not changing my mind. _________________ my name's carrie and i love a good sandwich so if you have a sandwich, come roll with me! 
i'm gonna marry the mars volta. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 01 Nov 2003 | Posts: 8260 | Location: new hampshire
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:51 am
DRMS_7888 wrote: It's music, but's it just a segment of music. Music is full of breaks and pauses (not so much in pop music, but moreso in classical.) The breaks are written into the parts. Without any of the different parts (rhythm, melody, harmony, or silence), the song wouldn't be the same.
This piece might be considered highly improvisational because it's different each time. It is affected by the quality of the hinges on the piano, the crowd noise, the natural accoustics of the hall, and more. But you can't have breaks without the other parts. Can you call a piece music if it is just a big long break? And can you call it a break if there was nothing to break from? Or... If there is no such thing as silence... then there are never really any breaks either. You can never truly write in a break because the sound never stops. And those who say, "well, you're breaking from the rest of the music"... well... what if there is no other music to begin with? _________________ "If you're a ninja, every day is like friday." -Jamie M. |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 | Posts: 2857 | Location: Lake Jackson, TX
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:42 am
I try to avoid overanalyzing things. You can go on and on for hours discussing whether or not 4 minutes of silence can properly be termed "music", but at the end of the day, what matters is, did you create something that's enjoyable to listen to? i think some people probably play that john cage song, and say, "oh, man, that's so avant garde, that's so challenging". it's silence, people! it's not enjoyable to sit and listen to silence for 4 minutes, unless you're meditating or deep in thought, but you don't need to pay john cage your hard-earned money for a recording of silence. you can create your own. that song is an artistic cop-out in my opinion. if you want to argue that he "pushes the boundaries of music", let me say this: if you ask me to make you a meal, and i serve up a plate with a pile of steaming dogshit, then technically, i am "pushing the boundaries of cuisine", and I am "challenging your notion of what food is", but that doesn't make it taste good. A piece of crap is a piece of crap. _________________ "Hello, Mother Leopard. I have your cub." |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 | Posts: 100 | Location: Maryland
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Laughing City Forum Index -> Music -> is this music?
Page 1 of 3 goto page | next >>
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
All times are GMT - 12 Hours
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
