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 Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:18 am 
I forgot about a few older games: Out of this World - (Another World outside the US) on Sega Genesis Flashback - Sega Genesis ^both by Delphine Games Oddworld and it's sequels These games are fairly similar in that they are based on that Prince of Persia model of MOCAP like fluidity and seamless interaction between the player and the level design that involved more than (Punch, Kick, Jump). Brilliant gameplay mechanics, and compelling art and stories galore. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB           
 = personal fave  = Eisley fans should dig it
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:44 am
DRMS_7888 wrote: mr pine wrote: i dont know how anyone can play a game like bioshock, or mass effect, or even halo, and not call it art.
i could see if one wanted to make a case against pac man, or peggle. but dead space? or dante's inferno? no way. it is art for sure. That sentence is pretty silly. ICO is the correct answer to this question. The next best answer I have would be Metroid Prime or Half Life 2. olimario wrote: ICO is a great game, but we disagree on what the best games are.
The Playstation era brought us the "Interactive Film" with Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, and Final Fantasy VII. The gameplay was pretty terrible and unfun in all 3. Oiy! I've never played Resident Evil, but Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy 7 both have fantastic gameplay. What was terrible about it? Hah! Final Fantasy's turn-based battle system hadn't evolved since the first one. Metal Gear Solid is the real offender. Where Nintendo games of that era had incredible precise and pressure sensitive analog control, MGS had sharp turns and the limited ability to only run or walk. Combat and shooting were especially atrocious. This wasn't fixed until MGS3: Substance. |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:50 am
all opinion. seeing as how i do not, nor have never, owned a sony system, i have not played those games. bioshock is a work of art. plain and simple. _________________ Wil's excellent description of me. wilsmith wrote: You're the Anti-Censorship+Topless Twitpic Parodying+Youth Group Video Directing guy that's a champion for the 1st amendment, Videogames as Art, and unrepentant file sharing... Instagram - Facebook - Twitter - YouTube |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:35 am
Considering the amount of artwork that goes into a game i would say that a video game is one big pile of art. Between concept art, character art, background art, level design, and all of the other stuff that has to go into it i want to give mr. ebert a swift kick in the face. My dream career is do character and or concept art for video games so for someone to call a video game "not art" really angers me. Even for video games i don't like, the artwork in it is absolutely beautiful. Bioshock is possibly one of THE best examples of art, that game is absolutely beautiful. The backgrounds are so wonderful and the settings are so intricate. The character design, while ...a little grotesque, is still wonderful. 
http://www.bioshock-online.com/media/conceptart/ Even team fortress 2, which art is heavily based of of "The Incredibles" is stunning, i'm blown away every time i watch my boyfriend play 
Even Starcraft 2 has verged onto being ABBBBSOLUTLY gorgeous and while i'm not a WoW fan, the concept art behind it is amazing - Valve's whole entire Orange Box collection is stunning in the art department. if someone wants to say that the concept art is the only art portion of a video game, and the fact that it's not even apart of the game, then i'd also like to give them a swift kick to the face. The concept art is what makes a video game. Sure some people might not view what's in a video game as "artistic" - the ugliness that is bioshock, or the flesh eating zombies of left 4 dead. some people actually love the disgusting factors in games, i know a lot of my fellow art students crave it. I don't go calling Carravagio's "The Incredulity of Saint Thomas" not art because of the disturbing visual of a man sticking his finger into Christ's wound. Or the many representations of john the baptist's severed head on a platter in art. Square Enix games, such as the Final Fantasy franchise, or even Kingdom Hearts (my favorite game) are also absolutely beautiful. The amount of detail that the game creators keep shoving in each time they release a game never ceases to amaze me and i have no idea how one could not consider it art. If a movie can be considered art, then why can't a video game? They're essentially the same thing except someone is controlling the game. Countless movies are made FROM games. Tron (kind of), Prince of Persia, Final Fantasy Advent Children, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Street Fighter (not that they're the best...example) - Sonic the hedgehog has HOW many cartoon shows AND movies? _________________ Saellys wrote: You misunderstood. I used that emoticon to show people what they'd look like after I stab them in the eye.
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:13 am
^ that "kick in the face" comment would be slightly more funny if not for what really has happened to his face
But yeah, I hinted at what you're saying, but you really fleshed it out big time. Also, I think it's all in definitions. I went to a Liberal Arts & Sciences University. There, the Fine Arts Department included English, Communications alongside Studio Art, Theater, and Music. So, the written and spoken word, Graphic illustration, acting, and music are all art, and video games have all these elements, strewn together, and occasionally elegantly so = Not Art?
Is viewer/ player manipulation of a set of the variables in said game any different some of the Art "Happenings" from the 60's like Yoko Ono's Cut Piece and Telephone Peace _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:20 am
wilsmith wrote: ^ that "kick in the face" comment would be slightly more funny if not for what really has happened to his face
WELL then....a swift kick in the bum
wilsmith wrote: Is viewer/ player manipulation of a set of the variables in said game any different some of the Art "Happenings" from the 60's like Yoko Ono's Cut Piece and Telephone Peace were it not for my foundation seminar freshmen year of art school, i don't think i would know what happenings are, so now i need to email that professor and tell him that because of him and his boring class i did get something out of it and carry on a conversation about it - haha. Happenings, while confusing, and odd i still consider art - even if it's not something i ..always like. Since it's not supposed to be described as performance art, improve, or anything recited/remembered it's...a very odd sense of art. To see someone's reaction to a happening is what makes it what it is. There are certain things...particularly movies such as the ending of "Finding Neverland" or "Up" and yes, "The Notebook" which bring me to tears every single time. Movies...i guess in a sense could be a very very small form of a happening. Weddings as well could be I guess. I think it was in "27 Dresses" when Katherin Heigl's character says she watches the grooms face when the bride walks down the aisle to see what his emotion is. IT really does depend on someone's perspective of art. I know my mom wouldn't consider it art, she thinks art is pieces hung up on a wall - performance art or installations just ...confuse her. The senior finals which were on display at my school were...um...well - some had a lot to say about them, some just wanted to smash them and put up their own "better" art. One of the installations was a series of 5 tvs playing looping videos of the artist doing different things with foods. One was chopping strawberries, another eating chicken wings as fast as she could, another spitting blackberries out of her mouth, another dousing herself with a jar of honey, and another where she smeared i think crisco all over her body. I...wasn't too fond of it, but i think like most pieces of art are to evoke a feeling in the viewer and like happenings, the art is the viewers reaction. WHILE i might not like this, as well as many others - some people do we will respect it as art for the artist because she ..hopefully..put a lot of herself into her final piece. A movie we watched part of also in my seminar, "The Order - From Matthew Barney's Cremaster Cycle 3" holy crap was this movie off the wall, way out of no where, none of us had any idea what was going on. No one speaks in this part of the movie - it only focuses on a man who has to climb the levels of the Guggenheim museum to accomplish...something? While i didn't really know what was going on in this movie, i still really enjoyed it. After it finished the class erupted with "what the $#@! was that?" and many had only negative things to say. However i related it to Cirque Du Soleil... i don't always understand what's going on, however it's absolutely beautiful and i can't take my eyes off it whenever i see it. I'm not going to dismiss the movie as not art just because it's not what people tend to view as art...i just wish some people would understand that there's more to art that ...pictures and sculptures chillaxing in a museum I am for an art that is political-erotical-mystical, that does something other than sit on its ass in a museum. ~Claes Oldenburg _________________ Saellys wrote: You misunderstood. I used that emoticon to show people what they'd look like after I stab them in the eye.
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:04 am
I would claim Portal as art. _________________ patrock wrote: Grandma: What are you thankful for?
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:49 am
How can Mass Effect be anything but art? Sometimes I just stop in that game, and look around. It's breathtaking. Yesterday I played Mirror's Edge for the first time. It wasn't quite as "beautiful," but from a design standpoint, it was very thoughtful and, well, genius.
My ex-bf wants to compose the scores for video games, so for him, video games are a musical art form. He's really good at it, too! Ebert is an old man, though. He doesn't get it. _________________ You can't find love; you have to create it. Flickr |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:30 am
The screenshot gallery on that site is really interesting... there are a lot of early screenshots of things that I'm almost certain didn't make it into the final game, or did in a slightly different form (one is of a Gene Bank labeled "Plasmi-Quik," for example). _________________ dave or a reasonable facsimile thereof |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:37 am
ync wrote: WELL then....a swift kick in the bum
were it not for my foundation seminar freshmen year of art school, i don't think i would know what happenings are, so now i need to email that professor and tell him that because of him and his boring class i did get something out of it and carry on a conversation about it - haha. A movie we watched part of also in my seminar, "The Order - From Matthew Barney's Cremaster Cycle 3" holy crap was this movie off the wall, way out of no where, none of us had any idea what was going on. No one speaks in this part of the movie - it only focuses on a man who has to climb the levels of the Guggenheim museum to accomplish...something? While i didn't really know what was going on in this movie, i still really enjoyed it. After it finished the class erupted with "what the $#@! was that?" and many had only negative things to say. However i related it to Cirque Du Soleil... i don't always understand what's going on, however it's absolutely beautiful and i can't take my eyes off it whenever i see it. I'm not going to dismiss the movie as not art just because it's not what people tend to view as art...i just wish some people would understand that there's more to art that ...pictures and sculptures chillaxing in a museum I am for an art that is political-erotical-mystical, that does something other than sit on its ass in a museum. ~Claes Oldenburg So, I totally get what you are saying, and what you studied. Impressionistic Classical Music goes for the same thing. I think Russian Ark would have been a good choice for that class, but that's just me, cause it takes what you said about tradition and museums and implodes the notion while exploring it in an Post-Modern Existential Time Traveling Kind of way. And that as beautiful as it is, and well executed as it is, it was done in 1-shot, one continuous shot, In a museum. It's a TRIUMPH. Oh, and EBERT LIKED IT! Obviously he gets art, he's just a snob and takes offense to any violence catered to or depicted by children, and that bone of contention is a big one as far as leaving someone feeling put off by the gaming world. _________________ yup, that's my name. FOR YOUR RATING PLEASURE: 4 LIKE Buttons, 1 NEUTRAL, 1 VEXED, 5 DISLIKE buttons. LC > FB
= personal fave = Eisley fans should dig it
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:17 pm
ync's urge to kick faces is concerning |
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:33 pm
The Dig and Myst were definitely art. I haven't felt that strongly about any game created since the 90s, really. _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:20 am
I'm not entirely sure you people understand what Roger Ebert was saying, honestly... Saying a video game is art is about as patently ridiculous as saying that, say, a game of chess is art! Chess is a game, and it's objective isn't artistic expression or experience of any kind, but, rather, the personal challenge of winning. Now — and this is sort of the whole point I'm trying to make here — a beautifully crafted chess set or chess board can very much be works of art, but a game of chess played with those works of art isn't any more a work of art because of it! In the same way, a video game's graphics, or music, or storyline, can all be great works of art, but the primary objective of the video game isn't to experience those works of art — it's, well, the challenge of winning — and, if it was, it wouldn't be a game (but it would be art!) |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:38 am
do not be afraid. wrote: I'm not entirely sure you people understand what Roger Ebert was saying, honestly...
Saying a video game is art is about as patently ridiculous as saying that, say, a game of chess is art! Chess is a game, and it's objective isn't artistic expression or experience of any kind, but, rather, the personal challenge of winning. Now — and this is sort of the whole point I'm trying to make here — a beautifully crafted chess set or chess board can very much be works of art, but a game of chess played with those works of art isn't any more a work of art because of it! In the same way, a video game's graphics, or music, or storyline, can all be great works of art, but the primary objective of the video game isn't to experience those works of art — it's, well, the challenge of winning — and, if it was, it wouldn't be a game (but it would be art!) I love me some chess, and I love a well-crafted board and set, but I disagree completely with your premise. If it were that simple, no one would play video games at all and we'd all still be clamoring for the best available chess sets. Video games create an environment. The personal challenge of winning is embedded in an immersive world (if it's done right). The act of playing the game is not art, that much is true. But the environment created cumulatively by the graphics, music, and storyline has unlimited potential for genuine artistic merit, and because we don't really have a word yet for works of art that are immersive in a virtual sense, we still call them video games, which is not easy to separate in a semantic sense from the act of playing the game. Say an artist creates an installation that takes up an entire museum wing and immerses the viewer in a fantasy environment, complete with objects and music and all that. In one area you have a puzzle to solve; in another you use Duck Hunt-style laser guns to shoot some invading enemy, and in another you have to walk through portals in a certain sequence at the right time. There is absolutely no prize waiting at the end of the installation aside from a sense of accomplishment. Would you refrain from calling such a thing art simply because it also incorporates elements of a game? The only difference between such an environment and a video game is that the countless hours of work would have gone towards a physical product instead of an intangible one. That, and the players would get some exercise rather than end up with the bodies of sixty-year-old chain smokers.
Point is, video games are artistically greater than the sum of their parts because they create an experience that isn't easily replicable without creating a very large scale physical environment. The act of playing the game is not art, but that doesn't mean the game isn't art too. _________________ INTELLECT AND ROMANCE OVER BRUTE FORCE AND CYNICISM Smokemonster |
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:43 am
olimario wrote: ync's urge to kick faces is concerning i love art...and video games _________________ Saellys wrote: You misunderstood. I used that emoticon to show people what they'd look like after I stab them in the eye.
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Laughing City Forum Index -> General -> Art or not?
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